Dear Avsim Friends, I am so sad that you have so quickly cancelled the Fancon (or was it Fancom?). I not only registered with you, paid by paypal, but also purchased two airline tickets to Washington Dulles :-( trusting you. I have been able to cancel our hotel reservations. So I will lose at least $300, but the disappointment is greater. I greatly enjoyed the Fancon at Denver a few years ago, and would certainly have attended the one in Orlando, FL, if held. ~ You did not get sufficient early registrations, for what I think as the main reasons, because (1) you only casually pushed the act of registering, and (2) your prices were too high. Your announcements, if I recall, asked people to register by September, so you actually may have a thousand fans in the wings saying, Oh well, when it gets close to September, then I'll register. The way to have big events successfully attended is to determine that you will have it no matter how many attend. Then in a few years it will continue to build up. You also in the beginning should have charged less for your pre-social and final dinner, and venders should have been charged less--high charges telegraph a signal that only the wealthy elite are welcome. You should at least have had an Emergency Registration Call, with reduced rates for all who register within the next three weeks before cancelling. Were your administrative costs too high? Were you sending too many people at company expense and paying their airfares and hotel costs, plus an honorarium? That can be controlled. Also there is no need for you now to announce that you will never have another Fancon. You could have one at a moderate cost hotel near your home headquarters, charge the vendors only a small fee, and it could be a great success. Guys at Avsim, we love you, but you filed a Flight Plan for the Fancom, and as soon as you took off, you saw some clouds and weather in the sky, got scared, and quickly made an uncalled for emergency landing back at base. The experienced pilots are giggling, and saying, They must be beginners, real wonderful people, but they really didn't study enough on how to fly a Fancon. ~ We love the work that you do, and the Avsim website is wonderful. (Except you have made the Forums much too complicated.) If advertised right, you can run a Fancom, run it locally if you need to, keep it at low cost especially to vendors, and the pre-party need not even have a charge beyond saying Cash Bar. The final dinner could be $30 each. You made some basic mistakes in running it and advertising and these can all be changed. We want a Fancon (or Fancom?). ~ Cordially, Gary C., Col ret., USAR

I'm going to reply at the risk of Tom booting me in the butt, but honestly your post really irked me. So let me stipulate FACTS, before you jump all over us with your fiction:--Vendor price for tables has not changed since I came on board for San Diego, in 2005. It's been the SAME COST for 05, 06, 07 and even the same in Seattle.--Beginners? I'm sorry, WHO did Microsoft approach to run the front-end of their DevCon in 2007? They came to US.--We had LESS THEN A DOZEN that had signed up on the paypal area. --Costs too high? $125 for a full-deal is too high to you? My recent class reunion was $80 for THREE HOURS of beer or wine only and LIGHT snacks, not a full meal, white-papers, show floor, reception, etc. What exactly do you feel we should do give it away?--As for flying staff in for free, a large chunk of what we do as volunteers is NOT paid for; including most of a FanCon. Let's pay for all of the volunteers and we'll gladly RAISE the rate for a fancon.--Where do you expect ANY hotel to give us a $30/head dinner? Motel 6 won't supply a dinner that cheaply. If you'd like to see the hotel menu and costs let me know, we charged ACTUAL cost on that, made NOTHING on the dinner. For the record we made NOTHING on the reception either!--Admission costs too high? Then don't come to the dinner, or the reception, and pay at the door for the fancon if you like. That rate was LOWERED in 2007 and still you complain. It hasnt gone up since then either.I'll get off my soapbox now, but in the spirit of your email, "Vectors for controller amusement, turn left 359 degrees."P.S. if there is another flight sim community running U.S. shows, please by all means, show us. Last I checked, we were the ONLY organization even TRYING to plan one. I will go sit and wait for my &@($*-beating from Tom now, but I am tired of sitting around quietly being flamed by everyone for what we tried to do.

Dear Avsim Friends, I am so sad that you have so quickly cancelled the Fancon (or was it Fancom?). I not only registered with you, paid by paypal, but also purchased two airline tickets to Washington Dulles :-( trusting you. I have been able to cancel our hotel reservations. So I will lose at least $300, but the disappointment is greater. I greatly enjoyed the Fancon at Denver a few years ago, and would certainly have attended the one in Orlando, FL, if held. ~ You did not get sufficient early registrations, for what I think as the main reasons, because (1) you only casually pushed the act of registering, and (2) your prices were too high. Your announcements, if I recall, asked people to register by September, so you actually may have a thousand fans in the wings saying, Oh well, when it gets close to September, then I'll register. The way to have big events successfully attended is to determine that you will have it no matter how many attend. Then in a few years it will continue to build up. You also in the beginning should have charged less for your pre-social and final dinner, and venders should have been charged less--high charges telegraph a signal that only the wealthy elite are welcome. You should at least have had an Emergency Registration Call, with reduced rates for all who register within the next three weeks before cancelling. Were your administrative costs too high? Were you sending too many people at company expense and paying their airfares and hotel costs, plus an honorarium? That can be controlled. Also there is no need for you now to announce that you will never have another Fancon. You could have one at a moderate cost hotel near your home headquarters, charge the vendors only a small fee, and it could be a great success. Guys at Avsim, we love you, but you filed a Flight Plan for the Fancom, and as soon as you took off, you saw some clouds and weather in the sky, got scared, and quickly made an uncalled for emergency landing back at base. The experienced pilots are giggling, and saying, They must be beginners, real wonderful people, but they really didn't study enough on how to fly a Fancon. ~ We love the work that you do, and the Avsim website is wonderful. (Except you have made the Forums much too complicated.) If advertised right, you can run a Fancom, run it locally if you need to, keep it at low cost especially to vendors, and the pre-party need not even have a charge beyond saying Cash Bar. The final dinner could be $30 each. You made some basic mistakes in running it and advertising and these can all be changed. We want a Fancon (or Fancom?). ~ Cordially, Gary C., Col ret., USAR

I too went to the show at Denver (and flew from England with my wife to do it!) and regardless of John's reply to you, I agree that with you in that the cost of this event is almost certainly an issue where attendance is concerned. It seems to be the only reasonable explanation to me. Regardless of all the "downturn", "poor economy" etc things that have been said over recent years (and trust me these things apply to Europe as well as the US), European shows get attendances in the thousands, not hundreds like the Avsim shows. European shows typically cost around 10 Euro to attend and mostly include proper exhibition style booths for the vendors. Oh, and for those that drive to a show, they pay way more than double for gas than those in the US!I can only assume that the high costs reflect the everso healthy state of the US hotel business, because to me at least, if I were putting on an event that would result in a few hundred people wanting 2 nights hotel accomodation, plus all the drink and food that would be purchased by these guests, I'd be asking what freebies they'd be throwing in along with the free use of the room to set up some tables for the vendors to use!Anyway, just my take on it............others like John will no doubt have a different view on it.Paul

I'm going to reply at the risk of Tom booting me in the butt, but honestly your post really irked me. So let me stipulate FACTS, before you jump all over us with your fiction:--Vendor price for tables has not changed since I came on board for San Diego, in 2005. It's been the SAME COST for 05, 06, 07 and even the same in Seattle.--Beginners? I'm sorry, WHO did Microsoft approach to run the front-end of their DevCon in 2007? They came to US.--We had LESS THEN A DOZEN that had signed up on the paypal area. --Costs too high? $125 for a full-deal is too high to you? My recent class reunion was $80 for THREE HOURS of beer or wine only and LIGHT snacks, not a full meal, white-papers, show floor, reception, etc. What exactly do you feel we should do give it away?--As for flying staff in for free, a large chunk of what we do as volunteers is NOT paid for; including most of a FanCon. Let's pay for all of the volunteers and we'll gladly RAISE the rate for a fancon.--Where do you expect ANY hotel to give us a $30/head dinner? Motel 6 won't supply a dinner that cheaply. If you'd like to see the hotel menu and costs let me know, we charged ACTUAL cost on that, made NOTHING on the dinner. For the record we made NOTHING on the reception either!--Admission costs too high? Then don't come to the dinner, or the reception, and pay at the door for the fancon if you like. That rate was LOWERED in 2007 and still you complain. It hasnt gone up since then either.I'll get off my soapbox now, but in the spirit of your email, "Vectors for controller amusement, turn left 359 degrees."P.S. if there is another flight sim community running U.S. shows, please by all means, show us. Last I checked, we were the ONLY organization even TRYING to plan one. I will go sit and wait for my &@($*-beating from Tom now, but I am tired of sitting around quietly being flamed by everyone for what we tried to do.

The Colonel has some valid points, so you shouldn't be too irked. Mainly, the fact that I think you jumped the gun on cancelling (wasn't FANCON only open for registration a month or so ago?) While I didn't buy a flight, I was planning on going, my plan was to use one of my flight school's aircraft and fly over. I was going to wait a couple more months before committing to see what my school/work schedule was going to be like, and perhaps others were waiting too.As far as the hotel and your cancellation fees, I'm totally sympathetic, but I do know cheaper venues exist. We had a beautiful event for my Grandma's 70th birthday some years ago. We rented a large banquet room in an event center, with open bar, and catering for a relatively small fee.I hope to attend the Social.

I was very disappointed at hearing that the FANCON was canceled. The AVSim staff needs to understand that some people can't make commitments 6 months in advance.

Based on the steep rising cancellation costs involved here, how long should they have waited?

Based on the steep rising cancellation costs involved here, how long should they have waited?

AFAIR September was the deadline....

Wow, I am completely stunned! I understand that it was a business decision but the lack of input from the executive is disappointing to say the least. To find out from a fellow forum member is disappointing.In good faith I paid $676.47 to travel from Vancouver to Washington via Alaska, American and WestJet through Expedia. Apparently only 25 people registered, how hard would it have been to send an email out to us? There is no official word from AVSIM but someone did take the time to remove the FANCON section from the forum's. Very disappointed indeed.I don't know if I will even get a travel credit via expedia to travel on Alaska Airlines, American Airlines and WestJet because I declined the travel insurance due to cost factors.Thanks AVSIM.

Based on the steep rising cancellation costs involved here, how long should they have waited?

Based on the number of times these Fancon's have been announced and then cancelled over the last few years, why on earth should they expect huge numbers to be booking the event and even worse, the travel arrangements, so far in advance? In my opinion, it's become a trust issue and until Avsim announce a show and put on a show, they'll be lucky to ever get more than a handfull paying up front.That said, they've stated they'll not be doing any more Fancons so it's all irrelevant I guess............and a shame too.

That said, they've stated they'll not be doing any more Fancons so it's all irrelevant I guess............and a shame too.

Paul, where was this stated? I follow the Forums closely but I must have missed that announcement.

Apparently only 25 people registered

Really? Before the FANCON forum was removed I thought I had read a post (from a staff member) that nearly all of the allocated hotel rooms had been booked... and that the tone of that post was upbeat about the conference. This led me to believe that the FANCON was looking good to be a go and I proceeded to book my airline ticket, as I found a decent deal on airfare. It could be that folks booked the rooms and were waiting to hear more details of the conference events before registering. Also, as others have said, since the last FANCON was cancelled, many were probably a bit gunshy to commit early.I agree that it would have been nice to receive an email about the cancellation... as I had recently registered. The announcement has already fallen off from the headlines, so had I not seen it this weekend I might have missed the news. It would also be nice to learn when refunds can be expected and if the hotel will honor the booked AVSIM rate if we decide to still travel to IAD for that weekend. At the moment I am 50/50 on whether I will just eat the change fee on the air tickets and cancel the entire trip.

Really? Before the FANCON forum was removed I thought I had read a post (from a staff member) that nearly all of the allocated hotel rooms had been booked... and that the tone of that post was upbeat about the conference. This led me to believe that the FANCON was looking good to be a go and I proceeded to book my airline ticket, as I found a decent deal on airfare. It could be that folks booked the rooms and were waiting to hear more details of the conference events before registering. Also, as others have said, since the last FANCON was cancelled, many were probably a bit gunshy to commit early.I agree that it would have been nice to receive an email about the cancellation... as I had recently registered. The announcement has already fallen off from the headlines, so had I not seen it this weekend I might have missed the news. It would also be nice to learn when refunds can be expected and if the hotel will honor the booked AVSIM rate if we decide to still travel to IAD for that weekend. At the moment I am 50/50 on whether I will just eat the change fee on the air tickets and cancel the entire trip.

I feel so bad for you guys who had purchased tickets, I really hope that your change fees are minimal this far out.

Paul, where was this stated? I follow the Forums closely but I must have missed that announcement.

Sorry, I appear to have exaggerated slightly...the post from Tom pinned to the top of the forums quotes:"Given the circumstances that we see today in the community in the U.S., we doubt that we will ever hold a FANCON again. It is obvious to us that the enthusiasm for FANCONS in the U.S. is significantly lower than that of the European FS community."Paul

I feel so bad for you guys who had purchased tickets, I really hope that your change fees are minimal this far out.

I was hoping to receive some form of compensation from my credit card company once I had submitted a claim in writing, however after reading their trip cancellation policy I fear any forthcoming refund will be hard to come by. Therefore, could someone from the AVSIM executive reply as to whether or not the hotel room rate is guaranteed as I may have to make the trip. I figure I'll tour the DC area and take in some of the museums and other sites and make the best of this sordid affair.

I sent an email to hotel staff this morning to ask if they will still honor the room rate. I will reply back on what they tell me. As for my reply earlier, and the replies to my reply.....we'll never be able to make everyone happy 100% of the time. I too am shattered about this not happening, i had a very nice hand-out planned this year, printed on newsprint. I DID have a full white-paper schedule and presenters scheduled. What we didn't have was support of vendors. It would have made EVERYONE MORE angry to hold a fancon would an empty room no? AVSIM will still hold a board meeting that weekend. I am sure invites will be forthcoming from staff if you wanna join us for a drink. (DO NOT read that as free drink.) As for regional meetings like someone suggested, I am in Albany, NY area, I'm willing to start one here if anyone else is interested.