I sent an email to hotel staff this morning to ask if they will still honor the room rate. I will reply back on what they tell me. As for my reply earlier, and the replies to my reply.....we'll never be able to make everyone happy 100% of the time. I too am shattered about this not happening, i had a very nice hand-out planned this year, printed on newsprint. I DID have a full white-paper schedule and presenters scheduled. What we didn't have was support of vendors. It would have made EVERYONE MORE angry to hold a fancon would an empty room no? AVSIM will still hold a board meeting that weekend. I am sure invites will be forthcoming from staff if you wanna join us for a drink. (DO NOT read that as free drink.) As for regional meetings like someone suggested, I am in Albany, NY area, I'm willing to start one here if anyone else is interested.

Thanks for looking into the hotel rate John.Honestly, I thought it was due to a lack of enthusiasm on behalf of the membership, I never thought the cause would be due to vendors unwilling to spend a little money which they have earned from the membership of AVSIM and other simulation sites to showcase their products and to give back to the community. It seems that Murdoch greed has taken hold of the flight sim community.

well whatever their reasons, they didn't put forth the effort. SOME did, SOME wanted to sponsor it, and they know who they are. But going with 2 vendors is not good enough.

It seems that Murdoch greed has taken hold of the flight sim community.

That's a bit of a sweeping generalizaton. As it happens, my income from development is <10% of what it was this time last year, and I strongly suspect that my case is not unique......that seems to me the very antithesis of "Murdoch greed." <_<

Thanks for looking into the hotel rate John." I never thought the cause would be due to vendors unwilling to spend a little money which they have earned from the membership of AVSIM and other simulation sites to showcase their products and to give back to the community. " "It seems that Murdoch greed has taken hold of the flight sim community."

Fancon type gatherings will flourish when the FS Community including FS Commercial Vendors flourish.Not much interest in such gatherings with the FS Freeware Vendors supporting the show.These days seem to reflect attitudes and economic conditions having a bit of a downturn.....:Nerd:

That's a bit of a sweeping generalizaton. As it happens, my income from development is <10% of what it was this time last year, and I strongly suspect that my case is not unique......that seems to me the very antithesis of "Murdoch greed." <_<

As John stated only 2 vendors had confirmed as of last week, a full 2 1/2 months since the FANCON announcement if my memory serves me correct. I can think of 20 vendors off the top of my head and I am sure there are many more. My comment did sound like a sweeping statement because that is exactly what it was meant to be, it wasn't meant to illicit defensive remarks by any one vendor. In the end the vendors who decided not to support the FANCON know who they are.

As John stated only 2 vendors had confirmed as of last week, a full 2 1/2 months since the FANCON announcement if my memory serves me correct. I can think of 20 vendors off the top of my head and I am sure there are many more. My comment did sound like a sweeping statement because that is exactly what it was meant to be, it wasn't meant to illicit defensive remarks by any one vendor. In the end the vendors who decided not to support the FANCON know who they are.

It might be an idea to actually think about who these vendors actually are, where they would be coming from, what they would need to bring with them, how they would get it there and what the possible costs would be (on top of the $1,000 that Avsim charge for the use of a table to display their wares on).............then compare that outlay to what the benefit might be, aside from a nice warm glow from having "supported" Fancon.Just my personal thoughts.Paul

Exactlly, Paul. That was my point about not being a unique case. I live only two hours from KOSH but I'm not able to afford going to Air Venture this year, not even for a "day trip," much less staying overnight.More to the point, my remark wasn't "defensive" in the least. It is a factual comment on the state of the FS economy... :Thinking:

Table: $1000Airfair: $367Airfair: $318Room: $170Room: $170Shuttle: $60Food: $200Shipping: $100Total: $2385Divide that by $45 average price of our software and we would need to sell 53 copies to NEW users in about a day and a half just to break even, and there is no way in heck we would be able to do that. And I am sure I am low on some of those costs I listed.

Paul and Fr. Bill,We have a long way to go yet, perhaps support in Europe is miles ahead compared to North America add to that the ease of travel due to both an extensive transportation network and geographic proximity translates into an industry that is a little more attractive and profitable. With that said I will put my comments to rest, appreciate your feedback.

It might be an idea to actually think about who these vendors actually are, where they would be coming from, what they would need to bring with them, how they would get it there and what the possible costs would be (on top of the $1,000 that Avsim charge for the use of a table to display their wares on).............then compare that outlay to what the benefit might be, aside from a nice warm glow from having "supported" Fancon.Just my personal thoughts.Paul

Exactly Paul. That's why I suggested that Fancon like gatherings will flourish when the Community and Commercial Vendors flourish...Should have added FS Public sites such as Avsim, et all, flourish as well.:Nerd:

We have a long way to go yet, perhaps support in Europe is miles ahead compared to North America add to that the ease of travel due to both an extensive transportation network and geographic proximity translates into an industry that is a little more attractive and profitable

I observed this in many other conventions, when comparing Europe and the US, even in sectors very different from flight simulation. The usual model of organizing a fancon in the US, is usually rent an hotel, were both the actual convention, the attendees and the exhibitors stays for the whole duration of the event. Prices for users to attend in the US are always at least 100$, but usually more, and this can grow because of the various events like social dinners, that many feel basically obliged to attend, since the whole event is happening there anyways. Of course, this is related to the usually greater distances involved, maybe the hotel is far from the city downtown.In Europe, the model is very different, even if you have a fancon, it's almost invariably linked to another, larger exhibition and, even when it's not, is hosted in some kind of public structure like a museum, which is not in the accommodations business like an hotel. Prices to attend a fancon in Europe (any fancon, not just flightsim, I often visit conventions related to boardgaming or amateur astronomy, and it's all the same) rarely exceed 10 EUR to enter, some of them are free, provided you pay the attached museum ticket.A common model, at least in Italy, is to link a flight sim con to a general "Electronic Fair". This is an touring exhibition that travels through many different cities every *week* and features every kind of gadget sellers, from portable DVD players, to PC parts, to vinyl LP records, to military surplus. The Italian Virtual Pilot Association (PVI) once or twice at year, connects with this exhibition to organize a flight sim area inside of it, and the prices for both users and exhibitors are very reasonable AND you also get visits from NEW casual users that came here for the *main* exhibition, so there's a chance to meet lots of new users too, that maybe didn't know anything about flight simulation. Another popular hook point are the modeling fairs, we have a Model Expo in Verona every year, and I usually have my table there, selling boxed stuff from all main Flight sim publishers.Of course, nothing is scheduled about accomodations and/or dining. Yes, there are conventions with hotels, which usually offers very good prices, but everybody is free to choose were to stay, which is better, since the exhibition is never set in the hotel in the first place, but it's almost always in the dedicated fair area of the city, or in a museum.Of course, the US model is more comfortable but, being so much more expensive, it's difficult to attract many new users, and it's enough the economy would somewhat weaker, that every falls apart. Even in a weak economy, it's not a problem to find 10 EUR to enter a show and, more important, not being a closed show related to one thing only, you get a constant refill of new users that didn't had any idea of flight simulation when they enter the exhibition.Just to give an idea how the entry price could make a difference: this year one of the main boardgaming conventions dared to raise the entry fee from 11 to 13 EUR, and this started a *revolution* on forums, with hundreds of complains how expensive it started to become...

I was p!5580 o77 to read of the cancellation of FANCON when I was trying to register, and this only two days after I booked my airtickets from SOUTH AFRICA at a cost of around $3000. The less said the better...............................

John,

I sent an email to hotel staff this morning to ask if they will still honor the room rate. I will reply back on what they tell me

Do you have any update on the hotel room rate? I probably need to make my final decision on whether or not to still fly out to IAD that weekend by the end of August. I would like to be able to factor the hotel cost before I take the $150 hit for the cancel fee on the ticket. Also, since there is hasn't been any mention of the cancellation on the main page for quite a while, you might want to sticky that topic on the main AVSIM page in case there are folks who have not yet seen that announcement.

I don't think they are going to honor the room rate since we are no longer a large group. Assume that if you can find a cheaper room elsewhere and still wish to attend for the social with staff only, please do so.