Both switches is a non sense.

That's a negatory. Total loss of hydraulic pressure unambiguously calls for both flight control shutoff valves to be closed, and the flight control switches (both) to be set to standby rudder. Check your procedures. Still, the above issue remains, as placing only one switch to STBY RUD (and hence activating the pump) would apparently not supply enough pressure to move the rudder at full control range.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine control forces needed on the yoke for manual reversion would be extremely high, at least for my 145lb frame. Even the foot "stands" are still there in the NG cockpits for added yoke back pressure during manual reversion; Yes, they are there to put your feet on to "stand" and pull back on the yoke. I can also imagine that it's not only a hand full, but damn scary while landing in manual reversion (think bent up aircraft).

The "foot stands" you refer to are nothing more than foot rests. They are there simply to keep the pilots from propping their feet up, which we are prone to do, on something expensive like the CDU. I don't know where you got the idea that they are to aid in pulling back the yoke. Whoever told you that was messing with you or had no idea what they were talking about.

The "foot stands" you refer to are nothing more than foot rests. They are there simply to keep the pilots from propping their feet up, which we are prone to do, on something expensive like the CDU. I don't know where you got the idea that they are to aid in pulling back the yoke. Whoever told you that was messing with you or had no idea what they were talking about.

Not that they weren't built as foot pegs for pilots needing a stretch, but my captain friend swears up and down that's what they're for. Thanks for the input, none the less. I'm sure you're correct.

The logic of the system requires only one activation input.-The pump is one, the pressure cannot be regulated outside the system, so with stby rudder you don't have a pressure reducer or a travel limiter, SMYD is the only remaining outside input for turn coordination in manual reversion.-The shut off valve is one-The stby actuator is oneSwitches are 2, there is also the automatic relay, but wire exiting from those switches/relay join together and only one goes to activate the stby rudder.The procedures may be different to prevent the system to be on/off if there are systems A or B with irregular pressure, this can cause continue activation/deactivation of the stby system if flight controls switches are not forced on STBY position.

This guy brings out the electric schematic....How unreal is this!

Hi Kevin,With regards to the red landing gear lights, it also denotes an up lock failure if the gear handle is in the up position. This is most likely correct what you are seeing. Dinshaw Parakh.

The gear handle was in the OFF position.However I can see why the disagree lights might come on with the gear lever UP and hyds off.Kevin Hall

The logic of the system requires only one activation input.-The pump is one, the pressure cannot be regulated outside the system, so with stby rudder you don't have a pressure reducer or a travel limiter, SMYD is the only remaining outside input for turn coordination in manual reversion.-The shut off valve is one-The stby actuator is oneSwitches are 2, there is also the automatic relay, but wire exiting from those switches/relay join together and only one goes to activate the stby rudder.The procedures may be different to prevent the system to be on/off if there are systems A or B with irregular pressure, this can cause continue activation/deactivation of the stby system if flight controls switches are not forced on STBY position.

I'm not questioning the system logic, just that having both switches on was nonsense. It's just standard procedure depending on circumstances. However thanks for the schematic. Out of interest, what doc is that taken out from?

This guy brings out the electric schematic....How unreal is this!

Not unreal, informative at best.

aircraft Wiring diagram manual ;).It is a nonsense because of how it works, but the procedures sometimes tell pilots to do more than necessary, this for backup and safety.I can imagine that a single switch or the auto relay can fail, so the checklist will say "Ok, turn all ON" so in case of a single switc failure te oter will back it up.There are other examples on doubled manouvers when a single one is sufficient, it can be a non sense technically speaking, but maybe good for backup and to lower a risk of a "Murphy's law" event.

Kevin- You sent these observations to support in a ticket awhile back. I have gone through most of them and while you do a suitable job here of impressing everyone with your ability to look up information- your "Mark I Mode 0 Eyeball" measurements of deflections by looking at the simulator are incorrect. As for other observations- they will get reviewed in time- and either tossed out as invalid or adjusted. In the future- there isn't any need to double post to support and here...