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airwolfe

Help needed creating flight plan

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I have used several sources (FlightAware, vRoute) to create a simple route from KBFI to KPDX. Both methods come up with KBFI -> SEA -> HELNS4 - KPDX Every time I input this into the FMC I get a route that is continuity problems. What am I doing wrong ?

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Have you tried closing up the discontinuities?Then cycle through the CDU legs page with the EFIS on plan mode to view your route.Dan.

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Have you tried closing up the discontinuities?Then cycle through the CDU legs page with the EFIS on plan mode to view your route. Dan.
I have tried, with no luck. I think I missing the concept of creating a flight plan like the Tutorial #1 has between EGKK and EHAM. How would you go about creating/planning all the route info for KBFI to KPDX ? The actual FMC input/route info. Thanks

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Okay, here's the basic concept using a little very simple and quick guide for you to try, which should clarify basically how you do it: Open up the default FS flight planner, choose a departure airport, and an arrival airport (anywhere you like), choose flight type 'IFR' and use 'high altitude airways', have it generate the flight plan and then save the plan. Now, load up a flight using that plan and open up the 'nav log' from the FS menus, that should show you a list of waypoints that the default FS planner has used on that flight plan, they'll be VORs, intersections etc. Don't worry about the routing it creates at this point, this is just for practice. Now maximise the NG's FMC and input those same departure and arrival airports and then look on the flight plan in the FMC, which you will see on the RTE (route) screen. Lets say for the sake of simplicity that one of your waypoints seen on that FS menu nav log is a VOR beacon called 'PIG'. Here's what you do: type PIG into the scratchpad on the FMC and then click on the button at the left side of the FMC on the RTE (route) page, and PIG will appear on the route in between the departure and the arrival airports and you'll have a waypoint planned in, but there may still be a discontinuity gap, so to remove that, what you do is click on the button on the side of the FMC next to the 'PIG' waypoint and that will put the 'PIG' waypoint back into the scratchpad. Now click the button alongside the discontinuity gap and that will put PIG in there too, and since it is already in the plan, the FMC will remove the duplicate and in doing so remove the discontinuity gap, and that is how you close a discontinuity gap, so, for a full flight plan you just stick all the waypoints in and then on the last one use that 'duplicate the waypoint in the scratchpad and then put it in the gap' technique in order to close the gap. Now you will have the option to press the 'Activate' and 'Execute' buttons on the FMC and that will be you plan closed up and ready to use. Any other changes you make to any settings on any FMC page, such as V Speeds or cruise limits or whatever, hit the Activate/Execute button to okay them. Pretty simple really. For SIDs and STARs, just pick suitable departure and arrival runways that are logical for your intended flight and you'll get SID and STAR options relevant to those choices, Activate and Execute those and Bob's yer uncle, you are good to go. Al

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Here's a step by step way: Click on RTE pageUnder ORIGIN type in KBFIUnder DEST type in KPDXClick on NEXT PAGEUnder TO type in SEAClick on DEP/ARR pageClik on DEPClick on NEEDL7Click on DEP/ARR page againClick on PDX ArrivalsClick on a runway and then on the HELNS4 arrivalClick on the EXEC buttonGo to the LEGS page andClose the discontinuitiesYou should have 3 pages of waypoints. Bob Lyons

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Thank you for all for the help ! Smooth skies up here now cool.png

Here's a step by step way: Click on RTE pageUnder ORIGIN type in KBFIUnder DEST type in KPDXClick on NEXT PAGEUnder TO type in SEAClick on DEP/ARR pageClik on DEPClick on NEEDL7Click on DEP/ARR page againClick on PDX ArrivalsClick on a runway and then on the HELNS4 arrivalClick on the EXEC buttonGo to the LEGS page andClose the discontinuitiesYou should have 3 pages of waypoints. Bob Lyons
What software (if any) do you use to derive your flight plans ?

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For the US, I use Flightaware. Go to the departure, and arrival airports, and get the latest weather, so I know which runways to use. Then search the latest flights database for actual routings being used commercially, Build your flightplan from there.

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What software (if any) do you use to derive your flight plans ?
vRoute would be the easiest choice. It covers the whole world, and gives you suggestions for charts and sceneries. If you want realistic routing in the US, go to Flightaware.com

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vRoute would be the easiest choice. It covers the whole world, and gives you suggestions for charts and sceneries. If you want realistic routing in the US, go to Flightaware.com
Will vRoute export the flight plan so that I can open in PMDG's FMC as CO route? That would rock.

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Will vRoute export the flight plan so that I can open in PMDG's FMC as CO route? That would rock.
Absolutely (if you have vroute premium)! But you'll have to enter the dep/arr runways and the SID/STAR. Make sure you save it under FSX\PMDG\Flightplans\NGX

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Will vRoute export the flight plan so that I can open in PMDG's FMC as CO route? That would rock.
Chidiebere's suggestion is by far the easiest. But if you don't want to buy it, get the flight plan from vRoute, head over to simroutes.com, click on generate, and input your route there, on the next page, you'll get a dropdown where you can specify to download the flight plan in PMDG format. I prefer to input the route into the CDU by hand, and save it so I can retrieve it at a later time. Also, that way it's easier for me to make sure everything is okay, especially when fix name duplicates appear...

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I was using AirNav (http://www.airnav.com/) to review SIDs & STARs for my flight planning and found it very tedious and time consuming. I stumbled across "d-TPP" in DVD format that is put out by the FAA. It utilizes a tool that allows a quick scan of all SIDs, STARs, & IAPs for airports within a coverage area including the United States (with Alaska and Hawaii), Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands and Pacific Territories (http://aeronav.faa.g...s/digital/d_tpp).This, with others tools meantioned by others here, has allowed me to plan flights much more efficiently.

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Once you get the hang of programming the FMC, I'd recommend reading Trisager's guide to flight planning. He's created several examples that use various different flight planning software to create the route and explanes 'how' to design your own route: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/345047-sids-stars-and-approach-transitions-worked-example/http://forum.avsim.net/topic/345272-sids-stars-and-approach-transitions-worked-example-iihttp://forum.avsim.net/topic/345450-sids-stars-and-approach-transitions-worked-example-iiihttp://forum.avsim.net/topic/346305-sids-stars-and-transitions-worked-example-iv/ I find it really satisfying creating my own routes between the various add-on airports that I have. He's also in the process of writing a very good cold and dark start-up guide. Well worth a read as well: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/347703-ngx-cold-dark-to-cdu-preflight-complete/

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<p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 18px;">My <strong><span style="color: #FF0000"><em>proven</em></span></strong><sup>1 </sup>method of simulating an actual flight</span></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 280px;"><sup>1</sup><span style="font-size: 12px;"><em>I fly side-by-side with the real-time track on Flight Aware and am almost always in</em></span><span style="font-size: 12px;"><em> complete</em></span></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 280px;"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><em> lateral and vertical navigation sync until vectoring begins in the approach segment</em></span></p><p class="bbc_indent"> </p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 40px;">1) Find a flight you want to simulate<br /></p><br /><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 80px;"><em>eg. Alaska Airlines flight 300, KSEA - KSFO - from their web site, I can glean aircraft make/model (737-800), pax loads (seating chart offered on the site), departure and expected arrival gates, and estimated push time</em></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 80px;"> </p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 40px;">2) Find the flight in FlightAware<br /><br /></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 80px;"><em>eg. FlightAware tells me again about the gates and estimated push time, but also gives me the actual filed route and altitude: HAROB4 ERAVE Q1 PYE at 37,000</em><br /></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 40px;"><br />3) Generate the basic route in SimRoute.com (free online service) and paste the route in the route box. Look for the SIDs and STARs and incorporate them...<br /><br /></p><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 80px;"><em>eg. HAROB4 ERAVE Q1 PYE tells me that the SID is the HAROB4 departure. SimRoutes has the HAROB3 (close enough) with ERAVE being the transition point to the enroute segment. PYE is a VOR that serves as an entry to either the GOLDEN GATE or PYE arrivals (I can see that from the dropdown choices for the STARs). Looking at other flights going into SFO in Flight Aware, I suspect I will be directed onto the PYE STAR and so I will use that. So I pick the HAROB3 SID and PYE1 STAR in the drop down menu and delete those references from the route box (you can leave the transition points) - so the route box only says ERAVE Q1 PYE, or alternatively just Q1.</em><br /></p><br /><p class="bbc_indent" style="margin-left: 40px;"><br />4) Select the appropriate aircraft in SimRoutes, then download flight plans to both PMDG and FSX. In the FSX flight plan, edit it to include the altitude. No editing is necessary for the PMDG flight plan. By downloading the flight plan in both formats, you are ensuring that the FMC profile is in agreement with ATC (whether it be the default FSX ATC or Radar Contact).<br /><br />5) Open ASA/ASE and go to the Briefing section, then import the flight plan, edit the True Airspeed (mine defaults to 120) and note the average winds aloft. Use ASE to invoke FSX (or if you use an external frame limiter, invoke FSX with that after filing the brief in ASE)<br /><br />6) In the main FSX Free Flight menu, select the appropriate aircraft and edit it to show the flight number, select the airport and use the drop down to select the gate, and load the FSX flight plan. When the plan asks if you want to move to the departure airport, say NO. It will place you ate the end of the departure runway and we have already elected instead to be at the gate.<br /><br />7) Once at the gate, start powering up, bring the jetway up to the door and open the door and cargo hatches. Once at the appropriate point in the checklist to program the FMC, set your position and in the ROUTE section type KSEAKSFO. Don't worry yet about the departure runway. The route will load automatically. Listen to the ATIS for the active runway and incorporate that in the departure procedure. You can put in your best guess for arrival runway at your destination (Flight Aware will clearly show the runways in use), but keep in mind that can change especially with longer flights. I sometimes keep that open in the FMC and program it while airborne.<br /><br />8) If the actual flight is on time, push from the gate at that time. With 50 - 60% commercial air traffic, I am usually airborne after taxiing, waiting and release within a few minutes of the actual flight.<br /><br />Almost all my flights have been pretty accurate with the real counterparts. The beauty of this is that while I use a lot of different resources to bring the information together, most of the resources are free (except ASA/ASE). I did not discuss fuel planning, and of course don't have the actual numbers for cargo. But it's as close as I can get for now. For fuel planning - until I decide on something like TopCat - I am doing well with Milan Puta's B737 Fuel Planner (version 1.5a).<br /><br />I'd love to hear a discussion about SimRoutes vs. VRoutes. I am hesitant to move to VRoutes because I don't see where one can create their own flight plan - it <u><em>seems</em></u> (at least from the web site) that all the routes - while voluminous - are pre-configured and not amenable to editing (Is that true????). SimRoutes, while it's database is showing signs of age, is still quite usable and accurate, and it allows the flexibility to copy and paste directly from actual filed flight plans.<br /><br />LeeF</p>

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Here's a step by step way: Click on RTE pageUnder ORIGIN type in KBFIUnder DEST type in KPDXClick on NEXT PAGEUnder TO type in SEAClick on DEP/ARR pageClik on DEPClick on NEEDL7Click on DEP/ARR page againClick on PDX ArrivalsClick on a runway and then on the HELNS4 arrivalClick on the EXEC buttonGo to the LEGS page andClose the discontinuitiesYou should have 3 pages of waypoints. Bob Lyons
I can make this flight plan work, but I keep getting an error on CDU that says 'NO DES PATH AFTER BTG' What am I missing ?

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Wow - I don't know what happened to the coding of my earlier post. Here goes again.... My proven1 method of simulating an actual commercial airline flight

1
I fly side-by-side with the real-time track on Flight Aware and am almost always in
complete lateral and vertical navigation sync until vectoring begins in the approach segment
1) Find a flight you want to simulate
eg. Alaska Airlines flight 300, KSEA - KSFO - from their web site, I can glean aircraft make/model (737-800), pax loads (seating chart offered on the site), departure and expected arrival gates, and estimated push time
2) Find the flight in
FlightAware
eg. FlightAware tells me again about the gates and estimated push time, but also gives me the actual filed route and altitude: HAROB4 ERAVE Q1 PYE at 37,000
3) Generate the basic route in
SimRoute.com
(free online service) and paste the route in the route box. Look for the SIDs and STARs and incorporate them...
eg. HAROB4 ERAVE Q1 PYE tells me that the SID is the HAROB4 departure. SimRoutes has the HAROB3 (close enough) with ERAVE being the transition point to the enroute segment. PYE is a VOR that serves as an entry to either the GOLDEN GATE or PYE arrivals (I can see that from the drop-down menu choices for the STARs). Looking at other flights going into SFO in Flight Aware, I suspect I will be directed onto the PYE STAR and so I will use that. So I pick the HAROB3 SID and PYE1 STAR in the drop down menu and delete those references from the route box (you can leave the transition points) - so the route box only says ERAVE Q1 PYE, or alternatively just Q1.
4) Select the appropriate aircraft in
SimRoutes
, then download flight plans to both PMDG and FSX. In the FSX flight plan, edit it to include the altitude. No editing is necessary for the PMDG flight plan. By downloading the flight plan in both formats, you are ensuring that the FMC profile is in agreement with ATC (whether it be the default FSX ATC or
Radar Contact
). 5) Open
ASA/ASE
and go to the Briefing section, then import the flight plan, edit the True Airspeed (mine defaults to 120) and note the average winds aloft. Use ASE to invoke FSX (or if you use an external frame limiter, invoke FSX with that after filing the brief in ASE) 6) In the main FSX Free Flight menu, select the appropriate aircraft and edit it to show the flight number, select the airport and use the drop down to select the gate, and load the FSX flight plan. When the plan asks if you want to move to the departure airport, say NO. It will place you ate the end of the departure runway and we have already elected instead to be at the gate. 7) Once at the gate, start powering up, bring the jetway up to the door and open the door and cargo hatches. Once at the appropriate point in the checklist to program the FMC, set your position and in the ROUTE section type KSEAKSFO. Don't worry yet about the departure runway. The route will load automatically. Listen to the ATIS for the active runway and incorporate that in the departure procedure. You can put in your best guess for arrival runway at your destination (
Flight Aware
will clearly show the runways in use), but keep in mind that can change especially with longer flights. I sometimes keep that open in the FMC and program it while airborne. 8) If the actual flight is on time, push from the gate at that time. With 50 - 60% commercial air traffic, I am usually airborne after taxiing, waiting and release within a few minutes of the actual flight. Almost all my flights have been pretty accurate with the real counterparts. The beauty of this is that while I use a lot of different resources to bring the information together, most of the resources are free (except ASA/ASE). I did not discuss fuel planning, and of course don't have the actual numbers for cargo. But it's as close as I can get for now. For fuel planning - until I decide on something like TopCat - I am doing well with Milan Puta's B737 Fuel Planner (version 1.5a).I'd love to hear a discussion about
SimRoutes
vs.
VRoutes
. I am hesitant to move to VRoutes because I don't see where one can create their own flight plan - it
seems
(at least from the web site) that all the routes - while voluminous - are pre-configured and not amenable to editing (Is that true????). SimRoutes, while it's database is showing signs of age, is still quite usable and accurate, and it allows the flexibility to copy and paste directly from actual filed flight plans.LeeF

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