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ryanbatcund

Please promise me it gets better lol?

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After more flak I decided to try the XP9 demo....again.... For now I'll put aside my hatred of the GUI, controls setup (why so difficult to set up hat switch??), and funky AA and AF. Can anyone let me know if the addons get better than the default PA46 that's included in the demo? If the real malibu flew like the demo one does Piper would be getting sued on a daily basis. Or if there's some realism slider I need to change to make it better? Here, look a screenie, to prove I'm trying it again haha.pa46.jpg

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Hi Ryan, I've seen you on the Avsim/orbx forums I think. I've been doing the opposite, checking out fsx. Not many great flight models there I feel, almost stuck with A2A or PMDG.. I can heartily recommend any of Leading Edge Simulations products (eg Duchess), or C74's piper pack, or of course the Carenado xplane equivalents.

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RyanYou can't compare the default aircraft with payware aircraft. You're comparing apples and oranges. Just like you can't compare the default aircraft of FSX to some of A2A's or PMDG's creations.Truth is, most, if not all the default aircraft in XP9 have been recycled from V7 or V8. The default 747 and 777 have been around since at least V7. Search around and you will find add ons that will seriously give FSX add ons a run for their money. Like Simon said (thanks Simmo!) the Duchess I made with my development partner has received exceptional reviews. The CRJ-200 also will surprise you at how procedurally realistic it is.The add ons are out there and I have constantly said I will point people in the right direction if they want to see them and read reviews about them.No one is saying to replace FSX. We're just saying try X Plane as well.

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Ha, and I'm going crazy with all these forums now looking the same. I thought you'd posted on the Xplane Org forum! Duh...

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I was just going to pm you Goran! Yes, like everywhere, you get what you pay for. Except for a few very well done xplane freewares which also punch above their weight, like the x737 and some of xpfr's freebies. Ryan, pm me if you get lost & I'll hand select some for you. Ok the x737 only has a 2d pit (for now), but crank the weather up, use IFR in low visibility and you'll have a ball, once you wipe the sweat off your brow. Or just try to land Goran's Sundowner smoothly...

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After more flak I decided to try the XP9 demo....again.... For now I'll put aside my hatred of the GUI, controls setup (why so difficult to set up hat switch??), and funky AA and AF. Can anyone let me know if the addons get better than the default PA46 that's included in the demo? If the real malibu flew like the demo one does Piper would be getting sued on a daily basis. Or if there's some realism slider I need to change to make it better? Here, look a screenie, to prove I'm trying it again haha.
I'm also curious. Why is it hard for you to set up the hat switch? What are you actually having trouble with?Could you also please explain what you mean by "funky" AA and AF?And yes, there are realism settings as well as joystick sensitivities.Have a look at this, this, and this and tell me if you think it gets better.

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So the general consensus is that stock XP planes suck? Most FSX ones do too fwiw. I think what I'll do is wait for XP10 and then see what comes down the pipeline. Funky AA - meaning I cranked the in-game stuff and it looked like my screen shot (didn't look very AAed if that's a word), anyway I probably need to mess around in nvidia inspector and make a new profile for XP. Hat switch hard to configure - meaning you have to individually configure the 8 possible views, it won't work out of the box per se. What I'm getting at is that FSX is setup out of the box to use - lots more to do to get XP working well, and the interface isn't visually appealing. Hopefully that's improved in ver 10. Thanks for all responses.

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So the general consensus is that stock XP planes suck? Most FSX ones do too fwiw. I think what I'll do is wait for XP10 and then see what comes down the pipeline. Funky AA - meaning I cranked the in-game stuff and it looked like my screen shot (didn't look very AAed if that's a word), anyway I probably need to mess around in nvidia inspector and make a new profile for XP.
Did you restart the sim after changing AA? It tells you it requires a restart if you change it. Same with overall texture resolution. Once you change it, you need to restart the sim.
Hat switch hard to configure - meaning you have to individually configure the 8 possible views, it won't work out of the box per se. What I'm getting at is that FSX is setup out of the box to use - lots more to do to get XP working well, and the interface isn't visually appealing. Hopefully that's improved in ver 10. Thanks for all responses.
To be honest, you are the first person I have ever seen that has complained about assigning views to the Hat Switch in x plane.By no means am I meaning to sound insulting, but it took me literally 30 seconds to set up my hat switch for the various views and no more than 2 minutes to set everything else up that I need.There are many default, out of the box settings already implemented. Views included. They're just different to FSX and you probably haven't found them yet. In that instance, there isn't much to do at all to get x plane working properly. If you want help, I'll be more than happy to point you in the direction of the various shortcuts. Regarding the interface, I've told this to a few other people. You are just too accustomed to FSX. ANYTHING else will be hard to get a grasp of. I have 3 different 3d modelling programs and it was a nightmare going from one to the other. Eventually, I got used to them. Improved might be good. Changed... not so much. But hey, can't make everyone happy.

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Can anyone let me know if the addons get better than the default PA46 that's included in the demo? If the real malibu flew like the demo one does Piper would be getting sued on a daily basis.
Hello ! Can you please describe the problem you had flying the Malibu ? smile.png If you'll like X-Plane or not will depend on the time you spend discovering all the features, settings, and add-ons. Flying a demo during a few minutes is just like trying a console game. I'm not using in-game "AA" and "AF". I prefer setting these options in the graphic driver. lor05-th.jpg lor09-th.jpg lor12-th.jpg lor19-th.jpg lor21-th.jpg Happy flying ! cool.png

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Hey Max, long time no chat! Nice piccies there. Do you know how to make the gpu driver control the AA? I have nvidia inspector which works great with fsx (there's a profile for it), but can't work out how to find an xplane profile or set a new one?Just curious, I'm actually pretty happy with xplane's AA.

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Did you restart the sim after changing AA? It tells you it requires a restart if you change it. Same with overall texture resolution. Once you change it, you need to restart the sim. To be honest, you are the first person I have ever seen that has complained about assigning views to the Hat Switch in x plane.By no means am I meaning to sound insulting, but it took me literally 30 seconds to set up my hat switch for the various views and no more than 2 minutes to set everything else up that I need.There are many default, out of the box settings already implemented. Views included. They're just different to FSX and you probably haven't found them yet. In that instance, there isn't much to do at all to get x plane working properly. If you want help, I'll be more than happy to point you in the direction of the various shortcuts. Regarding the interface, I've told this to a few other people. You are just too accustomed to FSX. ANYTHING else will be hard to get a grasp of. I have 3 different 3d modelling programs and it was a nightmare going from one to the other. Eventually, I got used to them. Improved might be good. Changed... not so much. But hey, can't make everyone happy.
Ok-I have to jump in. The xplane interface reminds me of the dos days. Now no mistake-I used to program machine language with one hand tied behind my back-but I just don't feel like doing that anymore. I also have found the xplane interface tedious. Just being honest. I just want to get going and simulate...

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Ok-I have to jump in. The xplane interface reminds me of the dos days. Now no mistake-I used to program machine language with one hand tied behind my back-but I just don't feel like doing that anymore. I also have found the xplane interface tedious. Just being honest. I just want to get going and simulate...
That's fair enough. But wouldn't you want something that is extremely flexible and customizable so you can set it according to what YOU want or would you want a small handful of preset configurations.Once you set your preferences, you can back them up, zip them, save them somewhere and if you ever need to re-install x plane, for whatever reason, simply drop your configuration files in the preferences folder and you're all set. I guess it comes down to personal preference.

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That's fair enough. But wouldn't you want something that is extremely flexible and customizable so you can set it according to what YOU want or would you want a small handful of preset configurations.Once you set your preferences, you can back them up, zip them, save them somewhere and if you ever need to re-install x plane, for whatever reason, simply drop your configuration files in the preferences folder and you're all set. I guess it comes down to personal preference.
Well not too happy with every update having to go in and reset every setting manually. Again-I just want to simulate-as quickly as possible...and I know it can be done from another sim...seems like it would be a good feature to add.

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I've learnt to backup the preferences file to save time in updates/resets.Having only used fsx in depth the last few months, I could say that setting it up and getting it running smoothly is more tedious than a few intuitive box clicks in xplane (and DOS never had that, but you can relive those days playing with your FSX.cfg file) As Goran says, it depends on the person. I find either interface perfectly fine, and I tell ya, I HATE having to keep hiding the menu in fsx. At least Xp is smart enough to auto hide it.

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I've learnt to backup the preferences file to save time in updates/resets. Having only used fsx in depth the last few months, I could say that setting it up and getting it running smoothly is more tedious than a few intuitive box clicks in xplane (and DOS never had that, but you can relive those days playing with your FSX.cfg file) As Goran says, it depends on the person. I find either interface perfectly fine, and I tell ya, I HATE having to keep hiding the menu in fsx. At least Xp is smart enough to auto hide it.
Ok-difference of opinion. Once again after 30 years or so (I didn't buy the early versions but have since the last 20 years)of xplane has been a continual coaster. Hope the next version gets me hooked...and I have never been a MS fan...till fs2002.

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Do you know how to make the gpu driver control the AA?
With my operating system, I'm using a program called "nvidia-settings" where you can force AA & AF in the OpenGL options.

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......., I HATE having to keep hiding the menu in fsx. At least Xp is smart enough to auto hide it.
you really hate pressing the alt button to hide .... the world is so different nowadays

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the world is so different nowadays
You got THAT right.

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"That's fair enough. But wouldn't you want something that is extremely flexible and customizable so you can set it according to what YOU want or would you want a small handful of preset configurations." Goran, Geofa wasn't saying he didn't want flexibility - he was saying that the interface - and I'm putting words in his mouth here - is archaic. Flexibility and elegance are not mutually exclusive.* I fully agree with him. While this is just opinion, there is is something to be said for human interface guidelines. The setup screens in X-Plane are some of the worst interface experiences I've ever encountered, and this is a pretty popular opinion. Simply put, it should look and work better. Another point: I love the smooth gauge animations - and the clear out-the-window visuals - but IMO the flight model is a little too smart for itself. I can tell you that I'm a fan of what Austin is doing - but I have not found an aircraft/settings that feel more --realistic-- than FSX. Smoother, more fluid? Sure. But the default 172 topples over (I know, I should try add-ons) and frankly, the aircraft seem to shimmy around constantly and unrealistically. (Are there any weather add-ons that can fix this?) I also have a much harder time trimming successfully in XP. Whether the "flight model" is better in either one is simply academic and is not relative in any way if it doesn't translate to what one experiences in the real world. I also am NOT a fan of a plane that slides around when it should be sitting still on a runway. Or 57 IKEAs on a 94 mile flight ;) I'll stop the rant there - both XP and FSX have many great things to offer, and the fact that we may be seeing new versions of each soon is only a good thing. Andrew All this said, I still use both. *For example, my wife. BAH-DUMP! Thanks, you've been a great audience.

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I haven't had a problem with the interface but I agree regarding the flight dynamics on the default aircraft. This simulator is sold partially based on the fact it is "FAA certified" and to quote x-plane.com: "What sets X-Plane apart? "It's blade element theory, of course. By breaking down every surface of the airplane and calculating the forces acting on each piece individually, X-Plane delivers the most realistic flight experience available" I've spent the last week trying to tweak x-plane to work correctly with a Saitek Yoke and CH rudder pedals at our flying school. I'm still finding the handling unrealistic on all the aircraft I've tried. I've even purchased a payware Cessna Mustang to try and tweak using a properly tuned acf file but it's still like flying something in an arcade game. X-Plane has some great features not found in FSX. Sloping runways, "ground effect", good looking default scenery and mesh, authentic night-time textures, quick loading interface etc. Unfortunately I haven't yet found an x-plane aircraft which replicates flight as accurately as such FSX models made by RealAir or PMDG. I'm going to continue to test and tweak in x-plane 9 but so far I'm a little disappointed. Regards Adam PS: I have 800 current hrs instructing PPL students on the PA-28, Cessna 152 and 172. I know it's not much but I'd like to think it gives me some insight into how these aircraft should perform in a simulator.

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"PS: I have 800 current hrs instructing PPL students on the PA-28, Cessna 152 and 172. I know it's not much but I'd like to think it gives me some insight into how these aircraft should perform in a simulator. " I'm sure you'll find someone who will dispute that... [edit] "authentic night-time textures" - they're pretty good - but what I really miss are the point-lights that used to be in XP. I think they are bringing them back. I wish I could find a really good model of a 161 that flies correctly (FSX or XP)... any suggestions?

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hmm. I'm ~400hr CPL ASEL & Instrument. (150, 172, PA28-200R, PA46, C310.) I think what then should be asked or covered, is what do you think you should feel or see. I think there's a missing variable that's not being qualified. I want to suggest that it's x-plane weather effects. I want to say that it's x-plane turbulence and strength of wind it gives for weather effects. I know on my side that alone can completely destroy any semblance of believability when it comes to flying anything smaller than heavy_airliners in x-plane. I do all of my x-plane flying on weather set to CAVOK, zero weather or clouds to get undisturbed air. Then for recreation I let real-weather be applied, but I think x-plane weather, wind effects are too ..... have too much authority. I know that almost regardless of the aircraft in x-plane, most all with just a few knots of crosswind will get turned and blown. I've experienced that IRL in giant tail 150 with double digit crosswinds... but not otherwise. In x-plane, it affects all GA size&weight size aircraft. Something to think about to reduce wind speed by half and see what that changes in your impresison. As far as the Mustang goes, I have an unsolicited direct quote from a pilot who flies Mustangs that says "She sure does fly like the real thing." so, there's simulator uses that say one thing, and there's time-in-type pilots that say another. (not discounting your feedback Adam, just saying there is a perception discrepancy to explore) I think, it's two things. x-plane weather effects, and comparing two simulators. I think about it like this, since I only use X-Plane. X-Plane does some things good, and misses in other areas. For what it does well, explore and enjoy that. For what it does poorly, avoid that. X-Plane AI ATC.. I haven't used since I started flight training to see that it was just wrong. X-Plane weather effects.. after burning countless hours cross country in my then 150.. comparing to bouncing around in x-plane... thanks, weather-off (wind & turbulence at least, which was when they were separate from clouds. currently, clouds present = turbulence). So to me, there is knowing what is right. knowing that data is correct and verifiable. a # that can be pointed out and directly referenced. and then there is variable. which makes x-plane the variable. chips fall where they may sort of thing. so, lets see. how better can you describe what you think is non realistic. I may suggest you edit any particular plane in plane-maker and reduce control deflections by half. (planemaker, standard menu, control geometry). that will change things so that your real yoke movement amount might match real control surface deflection amount at that same control movement ratio. but then maximum deflections are unavailable which would be noticed at slow flight and landing where large deflections are needed. some people use phase-out by speed to emulate that effect. I think that effect makes controls feel sluggish at increasing speed when in reality they get very taut and more sensitive and effective at higher airspeed. p.s. Adam, thank you for engaging in this discussion with me, I put some additional things on your account at my site so that we can talk about the same aircraft for common reference.

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Hi there, I'd certainly agree with you regarding the weather engine. I've turned that off now as all it does is introduce some rather unrealistic unstability which presumably is an attempt to replicate turbulence. This seems to happen whenever the weather is anything other than CAVOK as you say. I REALLY want to like x-plane. I would love to use it for our students. FSX is just too clunky and unrealistic in too many respects. I'm hoping x-plane will address some of those issues eventually. I've sent you a PM AADX. Cheers Adam

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