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flyingscampi

Bank Angle

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I just leave my bank angle selector at 30 degrees regardless of the stage of flight. What setting should I be using for departure, approach etc? I'd like to use realistic settings.


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From the way I understand you keep it at 30 degrees bank angle which will only affect heading select. If you have a turn immediately after takeoff you should limit bank angle to 15 degrees with flaps in TO position.


Sean Green

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From the way I understand you keep it at 30 degrees bank angle which will only affect heading select. If you have a turn immediately after takeoff you should limit bank angle to 15 degrees with flaps in TO position.
I've been on plenty of real flights that banked way more then 15* right after the gear came up.Do you have a source for your information?

AJ Pongress

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Section 3 page 118 Continental 737 Flight Manual (REV. 11/15/02 #41) The maximum bank angle after takeoff will be 15 degrees unitl reaching V2+15. At an airspeed of V2+15 and above bank angles of 30 degrees are allowable. This would be for immediate turns after takeoff which should not be performed below 50 feet. Most turns after takeoff should begin at 400 ft. Also according to a 737 Checkride PDF It is ok to set bank angle limiter to 15 degrees before TO in case of engine failure on departure but be aware atc will expect a 25-30 degree bank on departure. I believe in the old FS9 PMDG 737 their manuals stated to set bank limit to 15 but thats off the top of my head and I no longer have those manuals on my computer. So depending on the situation it could go either or.


Sean Green

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Section 3 page 118 Continental 737 Flight Manual (REV. 11/15/02 #41) The maximum bank angle after takeoff will be 15 degrees unitl reaching V2+15. At an airspeed of V2+15 and above bank angles of 30 degrees are allowable. This would be for immediate turns after takeoff which should not be performed below 50 feet. Most turns after takeoff should begin at 400 ft. Also according to a 737 Checkride PDF It is ok to set bank angle limiter to 15 degrees before TO in case of engine failure on departure but be aware atc will expect a 25-30 degree bank on departure. So depending on the situation it could go either or.
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Thanks for the replies. When I was on approach, the plane makes quite a sudden and steep turn when it picks up the localizer. This alarmed my imaginary passengers so I was wondering if pilots reduced the bank angle if ATC puts you on an high angle intercept course. Or doesn't this happen in the real world?


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When your picking up the localizer the plane decides the proper bank angle as the bank limiter switch will have no effect on the angle the plane makes. The bank limiter switch only effects heading select changes.


Sean Green

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Thanks for the replies. When I was on approach, the plane makes quite a sudden and steep turn when it picks up the localizer. This alarmed my imaginary passengers so I was wondering if pilots reduced the bank angle if ATC puts you on an high angle intercept course. Or doesn't this happen in the real world?
Typically, you're given about a 30 degree intercept. That's usually shallow enough.

Matt Cee

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I'm pretty sure LNAV will limit bank angle to a maximum of 8 degress below 400R, and 22 in any other case (IIRC). As has been correctly pointed out above, the bank angle selector has no influence there. sig.gif

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To supplement what Matt said, it's a requirement of controllers in the United States that, if they're vectoring you, you get an angle less than 30 degrees for the intercept if you're beyond 2nm outside the final approach fix. If you're closer than that, you must get less than 20 degrees as an intercept. As far as changing the bank angle goes, if you decide to, that's up to you, but lesser bank angles result in wider turns, so you may actually blow right through the LOC if you try that, starting the turn at the same point you normally would. Furthermore, ATC expects standard rate turns, which are at about 25 degrees bank. Someone above mentioned a bank restriction with flaps down. I'm not aware of any restriction like that, though there may be for different types. For what it's worth, using the standard GA pattern in a Cessna, you'll see 10 down at the end of the downwind, a 25-30 degree banked base turn, 20 degrees on base, and another 25-30* banked turn. As long as it's a coordinated turn, I don't see the danger. Many will, however, suggest flaps not be added in turns. First, the increased lift in the turn causes a little higher g load than in straight flight, and there's a chance an asymmetric flap condition would not be as easily recognized in a turn.


Kyle Rodgers

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In summary then: The selected bank angle only applies in HDG SEL mode, it is good practice not to exceed 25 degrees (ATC expects this angle)LNAV controls the bank automatically and ignores the selector, expect 8 degree turns below 400ft agl and 22 degrees aboveMake sure the LOC intercept angle is 30 degrees or less to avoid steep bank anglesAfter takeoff, limit turning until above 400ft agl and limit bank angle to 15 degrees until at V2 + 15 Thanks for all the help


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A standard rate turn is generally expected of most aircraft by ATC around the airport. Of course, operating limits, safety and the pilot's judgement trumps all. But, the bank angle varies because a standard rate turn is 3 degrees per second, so the faster you go, the steeper the bank angle must be to achieve 3 degrees per second. A quick way to determine the required bank angle is to divide your true airspeed by 10 and then add 7. So, if you are going 200kts, 27 degrees will get you pretty close to a standard rate turn. At cruise at 440kt TAS, a standard rate turn would be a passenger-eye-popping-puke-bag-using-white-knuckling 52ish degrees. A little much for Mrs. Farnsworth and her shitzu, Tilly, in first class. At my former airline, we went to 1/2 standard rate turns at 250kts+ for passenger comfort and on the aircraft there was a 1/2 standard rate button on the MCP as opposed to the bank angles present on the NG. In the absence of a company telling me what to do, I dial it at 15 on departure and then back to 30 once below 250kts on the way down just in case I end up in HDG mode. But that's just me.


Tim Kramer

 

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As you already explained yourself, the 3-degree thing is pretty much moot for airliners, as you can't achieve that high bank angles during normal revenue pax-loaded flight. Well you could after all, but shouldn't, let's put it that way. Other than that, since we lack an actual turn coordinator on the heavy iron anyways (that's where the good old Skylane finally beats the Bobby... LMAO.gif), it doesn't make too much sense to think about it too much IMHO. Ask any airliner and they pretty sure don't know how many °/s they make. They just fly bank angles, that's it, and have a maximum for it. sig.gif

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