I've tried all three mentione above and I don't just 'feel' I 'know what is good for me and my setup. I agree with you Martin that people shouldn't blindly accept what others have done and that there is no definitive answer, but they should find out for themselves. As I've said all along, YMMV.

Snake oil guys.and don't be fooled by the pseudo technical ramblings of those that wish to convince you need anything else.

You're almost as guilty as those saying, you must use xxx defragger in saying 'you shouldn't use xxxx' defragger, that's what amuses me. And you don't offer any performance data on the 'testing' you have done, just that you see 'no improvement'. As a scientist and a computer user I find that crazy. Before this thread gets out of had, I'm going to hit the eject handle and say 'I'm out'. I can't be bothered!

Precisely! Which is why claims like... The "optimum" defragging of your Hard Drive(s) is one of the most critical thing to "optimising" FSX's performance, and is one of the few SIGNIFICANT Performance increases you can get for FREE. ...shouldn't be made. To claim such things so definitively is wrong. It's a subjective opinion that hasn't been backed up by proper objective tests and replicated and verified by the majority. And i doubt it could be! I have no problem if others "feel" that subjectively it's better. Great for them, I'm happy for them. But I don't feel definitive claims should be made when many have seen no such improvements and you can't objectively prove it either way. Some people accept what they have been told, because it comes from someone they feel possesses more knowledge, or is in a position of authority. It's then quite easy to fool ourselves into seeing improvements that aren't there. My choice is to prove a products worth myself, and not just to blindly accept. What we do have of course is a set of instructions, provided by supporters of the product, telling us exactly what we should do to see an improvement with this product. Following those instructions, I see no improvement, no advantage over the standard Windows defrag. Thus, the claimed improvements can't be replicated by me or two of my friends. So I have no choice but to be sceptical. Show me a list of independent testers, that have, as rigorously as possible, tested the software, and formed a consensus that it does offer an improvement and I'll accept that my results are erroneous. Until then it's an unproven claim.

It has been proven, you just won't read/accept anything thats been said on the subject. The flip side of your posts is this: I challenge you to prove it doesn't help anyone.

.

Before this thread gets out of had, I'm going to hit the eject handle and say 'I'm out'. I can't be bothered!

Yes, I think I should do the same.

I'm not a fanboi, as you choose to label me (offensive in my book),

There seems to be a tendency to putt words into my mouth. Ed, I didn't label YOU as a ######. However, I did predict that those that favour a favourite product may arrive and wave there arms in the air in disgust. Which is usually what happens on these occasions. Please don't convert this interesting debate into a slanging match guys.

It has been prove, you just won't read/accept anything thats been said on the subject.The flip side of your posts is this: I challenge you to prove it doesn't help anyone.

Not at all Kenneth. The entire reason i tested O&O in the first place was because I was hoping for a positive result. And indeed, I may test again in the future. Indeed, if anyone can point me in the direction of several reviews, the majority of which demonstrate a positive result after testing, I would be delighted. I seek fligthsim perfection just as you guys do.

Before this thread gets out of had, I'm going to hit the eject handle and say 'I'm out'. I can't be bothered!

Why would an interesting debate get out of hand? If it does get out of hand, it won't be because of me, it may because there's a tendency to misquote me though.

You're almost as guilty as those saying, you must use xxx defragger in saying 'you shouldn't use xxxx' defragger, that's what amuses me.

Whrere have I said you shouldn't? Again... I didn't say that. I said i have no problem with others using a product if they feel it helps.

Hi Using Ultimate Defrag 3, I would choose FOLDER/FILE NAME defrag method to defrag the drive you have FSX on (best installed on a different drive to your operating system).Click on settings and choose "Custom" in the High Performance section. Click "select files" and tick your FSX installation folder, move it over to the right hand pane using the << symbols. Click ok. Back in the High Performance section, click on the "Strict placement, sorted by" option and then select "Folder/Filename" option from the pull down menu next to it. Leave it as "Asc". Importantly, click on the Options button next to the Folder/File Name back in the left hand pane and tick Respect High Performance (but luncheck Complete High Performance Then Stop). Check "Respect Archive" (but uncheck Complete archive then stop). Check Put Directories Close To MFT. Click ok. Defrag it this way and you will see an outer section coloured Purple. This is your high performance data. Doing this will move your FSX installation onto the outer part of your HDD and sort it alphabetically by "folder/filename" which will speed things up.You can also do the same for your Windows and Program Files folders too. The Archive option is to defrag any other data that you may not use too often. Hope this helps. Pete Smith

Thanks for your reply. I defragged using the exact same settings you told me. Afterwards there weren't that many magenta blocks on the image of my HDD. After starting FSX, the performance decreased even more. Before this defrag my free disk space was 348 GB. Right now, my free disk space is 269GB!!! I don't think this is normal, is it?

Thanks for your reply. I defragged using the exact same settings you told me. Afterwards there weren't that many magenta blocks on the image of my HDD. After starting FSX, the performance decreased even more. Before this defrag my free disk space was 348 GB. Right now, my free disk space is 269GB!!! I don't think this is normal, is it?

You're not using an SSD for fsx, are you? I know your sig says you're using a 1tb HD, but I thought I'd ask just to make sure.

You're not using an SSD for fsx, are you? I know your sig says you're using a 1tb HD, but I thought I'd ask just to make sure.

No I'm using an HDD, but is it normal that my free diskspace gets decreased so much?

No I'm using an HDD, but is it normal that my free diskspace gets decreased so much?

I don't believe I've ever come across that on that large a scale. It's why I asked about the ssd.

I don't believe I've ever come across that on that large a scale. It's why I asked about the ssd.

Ok, is there any way I can reset is back to default? So that I will have my old free disk space again? Or can I use Windows default defragger, I can't find that one, where is it?

Thanks for your reply. I defragged using the exact same settings you told me. Afterwards there weren't that many magenta blocks on the image of my HDD. After starting FSX, the performance decreased even more. Before this defrag my free disk space was 348 GB. Right now, my free disk space is 269GB!!! I don't think this is normal, is it?

WOW, you shouldn't be losing ~80GB of space!! That's just crazy. All it should do is relocate the folders/files and amend the file allocation table. I've never lost any space on my HDD defragging. Have you read the UD manual? Have you tried their forum? I'd be temped to run TreeSize or a similar program to find out what is going on. I'd carefully check your setting too... You can run a 'preview' mode in UD3 to visualise what the un-fragmented state will be, before it actually does it. I've never used it, but I suggest you do this first in the future.

martin-w, why don't you start explaining what that NickN said was wrong and what is right in your opinion (http://www.simforums.com/Forums/topic34799_post202329.html#202329)? He's pretty specific, you know Saying that you and two of your friends didn't see any improvements and totally ignoring all the experts opinions is a little strange to say at least. I also believe my own eyes but sometimes I listen to people who know more about the subject than I do. Well, what I saw on my own eyes is that O&O defrag improved my FSX performance considerably. And two of my friends share my opinion And I never lost any space when defraging with O&O defrag.

The "optimum" defragging of your Hard Drive(s) is one of the most critical thing to "optimizing" FSX's performance, and is one of the few SIGNIFICANT Performance increases you can get for FREE. ( Not new hardware cost !!) It is well worth research the subject, and once again "GOOGLE" is your friend here. Things to look for are "File Placement", "putting folder directories grouped at start of disk", and "MFT size".Size, control and Placement of your SWAP FILE, and defragmenattion of the Swap File is also important. In an idea world, you also want to have FSX on a different Physical drive, to your OS. Lots of stuff out there to read. One thing about FSX -- if you want it to run well, you have to become PC savy, or know someone who is. !!

Since my previous post seems to be being quotes by a few VOCAL forum members, in my defence, I will respond to their negative comments.

BY DEFINITION, if you DEFRAG your HD to "OPTIMIZE" your FSX's performance, you have "OPTIMIZED" your FSX's HD's performance for FSX.

What has to be "PROVED" about that ??? {sigh} However, if you just blindly run a given DEFRAG program, with non-optimized setting, YES, you may well either "increase" or "decrease" FSX's performance, depending on those settings.

It is well worth research the subject, and once again "GOOGLE" is your friend here.

Its 100% up to you what you choose to do with your PC, but you probably stand more success in optimizing your FSX's performance if you EDUCATE yourself to the various factors that affect your performance. Once again, its up to you how informed you want to become, but with all the resources of the Internet out there, you have little excuse for not being able to increase your knowledge. Typically, well written information, from a trusted source, as researched using Google, is far more reliable than the rants and raves of negative forum posts from anonymous individuals. Thats why it is called a "PERSONAL PC" -- it's your PC, and you are free to improve it's performance, or screw it up, as you see fit. Q.E.D.

One little thing not to overlook. If you have system restore on, whenever you install new programs, or get windows updates you lose hard drive space. What I do before defragging is confirm everything is running fine first. Then I disable System Restore on all hard drives which gets rid of all that extra stuff that was saved for restore. Sometimes you will get 20 gig or more back from that alone depending on how many restores you have saved. Also noticed when defragging that if system restore is on it takes alot longer to defrag than with it off. After this is done I run Registry Mechanic and fix any registry errors, delete temp files and defrag registry. Then I defrag all the drives and when done turn system restore back on and make a restore point. Here is anothing tip that will speed up your windows boot times. Disable your paging file on the Windows Drive and move it to another hard drive. (Preferably the fastest one). This allowed my system to boot about 50 percent faster.