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gura75

ENGM to EPKK real route vs, findroute

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For some time I have been using PMDG flying from ENGM to EPKK. I have been using routefinder to find actual waypoints. They match almost a real flight. A real flight, as shown in the included picture the Norwegian flight DY1040 (NAX1040)seems to deviate some from a route given by finderoute. It might seem that real pilots try to choose a more direct route. If so I'm not sure how they do so. I would imagine they skip all the waypoints given in the picture and select a more direct route. They will still need a waypoint close to STAR. Any suggestions? By the way.....it's quite easy to simulate the same cruize flight level, FL350.Sincerelygura75 (Click picture to make it bigger)

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As you have noticed, rfinder.asalink.net/free/ does not always produce a real life route, infact, in my experience it very rarely produces a real life route, and in many cases it produces a route which would be illegal to fly. Thats why I never use it. Instead you should try a few other route planners, let me recommend Simroutes and VatRoute. Both should produce varlid, real life routes. Unofrtunately not all city pairs have a route in those databases, and the example you used is not in either simroutes or vatroute. The real life route for the example you provided (NAX1040) should be OKSAT L996 GETPA L727 PENOR UN133 JED/N0290F340 M985 POBOK

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ENGM TRF5D.OSLOB KOLOB UL617 CZE UL623 BAREX EPKK was automatically built by FSBuild. It did not pick a STAR but those are available.Here's a map of that route by preferred most direct airways @ FL350:. . . and here's a navlog that it created using a B738 and a few added times I threw in for fuel planning using my last Active Sky download some time ago:Note the expansion of the SID. The AIRAC used is 1013 (last cycle 2010 which comes with FSB).This is best guess where no real route is available.

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The route I posted is a real life route, and it should be straight from the horses mouth (Norwegian Air Shuttle). The route your version of FSB suggested would not be valid for several reasons. The most obvious one being that the SID filed is no longer in use (ENGM changed all SIDs and STARs when they changed to the Point Merge System) (oh, and please dont take this personal if you found my tone somewhat aggressive, it was not my intention to be aggressive :))

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Thanks for providing good information and suggestions on the flight from ENGM to EPKK. (Norwegian flight) I know ENGM has new airspace structure. I have not concidered SID and STAR in my question. Provided good charts, SID and STAR are easier to understand. What's tricky is FL350 and above flights. Yesterday I followed Ryanair flight RYR8503. A flight from ENRY top EPKK. They also choose almost the same route as DY1040. Thanks ronzie for providing fsbuild suggestion. Still it's for simulation only. It deviates a bit. Most flights from ENGM to EPKK seem to be close to that I have included in the picture in the beginning of this topic. I'm not an expert on this but it seems like they choose a more direct route all the way down to approach. Referring to my picture, and DY1040 flight, I found that the deviation finds place after passing IPKAL. It even deviates some from the great circle as well. When approaching the airdrome they don't even follow the STAR either. (STAR provided by Jeppesen) I didn't know they had so much freedom to do so. Anyway, that's why simulation is so fun. You can always make improvements make it better and more realistic. Thanks guys.gura75

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The most reallife place to go (because it is real life) would be (for EU ops): http://www.eurofpl.eu/Make an account (free and no hassle) you can seach throught actual CFMU validated routes using newest AIRAC data.On the route in subject, this is for b738 up to FL380: OKSAT L996 GETPA L727 PENOR UN133 JED M985 POBOKMas

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The most reallife place to go (because it is real life) would be (for EU ops): http://www.eurofpl.eu/Make an account (free and no hassle) you can seach throught actual CFMU validated routes using newest AIRAC data.On the route in subject, this is for b738 up to FL380: OKSAT L996 GETPA L727 PENOR UN133 JED M985 POBOKMas
Thanks Mas! I will give it a try.(http://www.eurofpl.eu/) But still...the flights from (Norway and Sweden to EPKK) which I observe using flightradar24 never cross JED. Ryanair flights from Sweden and Norway seem to fly heading airdrome EPKK all the way to 10 000ft. Then during the descent at 10 000ft they seem to change heading in order to make an east bound turn before final approach. By the way... is it possible to instruct FMC to fly direct toward an airport and during descent add and activate STAR procedures?gura75

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If you are talking about the FMC yes it is possible. Based on direction of arrival your STARs should have a common transition point for all runways and that can be included in your FMC. When ATC assigns your runway you can go into your DEP/ARR page, LSK on the destination ARR section, choose the runway, and the applicable STAR for insertion in your LEGS page. You then edit your LEGS waypoints for any duplication and discontinuities.In the plan I send to ATC I have just the STAR common waypoints based on arrival direction where the STARS are runway specific. Depending on you ATC application getting the additional runway specific points into your plan, or ignoring those, is different. IN RC you can let it vector you from 40 nm out or request an IAP to ther assigned runway and RC will let you do your own nav which means you can use the FMC database.Sekstifire:No offense is taken. As stated I was using an old AIRAC (2010 cycle 13) from Navigraph.Others: I use charts from eurocontrol.Mas618: I registered but need to learn how to retrieve actual flights.

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Mas618: I registered but need to learn how to retrieve actual flights.
You can't retreive actaul historical flights, but you can have CFMU (Central Flow Management Unit of Eurocontrol) validate your route, or more convenient have it propose a route for you, based on dep/arr, DOF, FL and type of A/C.First go to Aircraft Hangar, and fill out the form completely (e.g LN-RRO, B736, blank, M, SWCDEFHIJLOPV/S (see wiki for description), 078, and so on. This for B 737-600 with standard equipment, Only the top part (above the canadian specefic) should be necessary. Go to the butttom and click Store.Second go to route finder, and puch in ADEP and ADES (dep/arr), and select your stored aircraft. Select a FL and click seach. The CFMU will validate and propose routes for you to use.I allways get an error due to some Carriage Requirement that are not met with my A/C, but it only has to do with me not filing the A/C equipment correctly...Mas

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You can't retreive actaul historical flights, but you can have CFMU (Central Flow Management Unit of Eurocontrol) validate your route, or more convenient have it propose a route for you, based on dep/arr, DOF, FL and type of A/C.First go to Aircraft Hangar, and fill out the form completely (e.g LN-RRO, B736, blank, M, SWCDEFHIJLOPV/S (see wiki for description), 078, and so on. This for B 737-600 with standard equipment, Only the top part (above the canadian specefic) should be necessary. Go to the butttom and click Store.Second go to route finder, and puch in ADEP and ADES (dep/arr), and select your stored aircraft. Select a FL and click seach. The CFMU will validate and propose routes for you to use.I allways get an error due to some Carriage Requirement that are not met with my A/C, but it only has to do with me not filing the A/C equipment correctly...Mas
Isn't this service intended for real world aviation? I don't think they would take it too well if they knew this was for a non-professional simulation program. It's one thing to use automated services, it's another if actual people are used to validate routes.

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Mas, thank you ever so much for that link!I just registered this morning and checked out the routefinder... cool stuff!They even offer a package for simmers with all the trimmings, though with vroute and the Eurocontrol site for charts, this one really helps...Andrew

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In my registration for Eurofpl I chose aviation enthusiast and for the pilot license identification I put retired - not current and used FAA for the licensing authority. (That's true, folks, not fiction.)

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Isn't this service intended for real world aviation? I don't think they would take it too well if they knew this was for a non-professional simulation program. It's one thing to use automated services, it's another if actual people are used to validate routes.
Hey Tom!I wondered this my self, but since it's possible to register as "only" an enthusiast and that doing so will gove you free access to the whole site and all functions, I think it's no problem. I gather that the CFMU validation is purely automated, once the restrictions made by actual humans are done once a day...Mas

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