Michael,11,000 at 285 sounds normal. The jet will start to slow and level as it approaches 10,000. Look for the doughnuts on the Map display and it will show you where the FMC thinks it's going to slow. The jet will start to slow, but it probably won't get a very good descent rate with the high N1%.

MattHow does 285 at 11000 ASL sound normal when the target speed on the descent page is 258 kts and the speed at all waypoints on the legs page during descent is 258 kts? I think the N1 percent is to high. If I tried to continue the descent and approach without a hold at 10000 ASL I would arrive at the OM way too high and way too fast. I tried that once and the landing was okay but it was very borderline between okay and a disaster. At the OM I had to caputure the GS from above, drop the landing gear, set flaps at 40, dial in the correct speed, and hope for the best.Michael Cubine

I very rarely need to use the spoilers on descent. IRL.. I believe its pretty normal for crews to start their descents way way early, like 50 miles prior to the indicated T/D. I've tried it from that far out in the NGX once, didn't work so well. Regardless, I always initiate the descent at LEAST 5 miles prior to the T/D using the DES NOW function on the DES page of the FMC. I guess it depends on the complexity of the STAR your trying to fly as well as winds... but the idea is to give VNAV a head start instead of just running right into the descent path with the engines at cruise power... even with tailwinds, I hardly need to use the "boards" to keep the speed.

These VNAV desceleration problems are got to do with your hardware controllers.I have done lots of tests with no controllers attached and everything is perfect.No flight or approach idle problems either.The Saitek hardware gives the most problems and PMDG are aware of this.Maybe SP1b will sort this out.Does anyone have a link to where PMDG actually says that there is an idle bug ?I can't remember ever seeing this.

http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=2172545

I had the same issue with HF4 with my sidewinder joy. It is confirmed that it is a problem of gear assignment on the controller.Probably the EEC simulation will not recognize gear retraction and then, it goes in failsafe mode and uses altitude (15500ft) for approach idle control istead of flaps/gear extension.

When FMC alerts that something is required, maybe you need to accomplish what it says... but, you can see the speed tape and speed trend to see if speed is going to increase or if it is simply momentarily or almost costant.So... monitoring...

Agreed 100%.That's a non sense deciding not to follow FMC warnings, because the criteria to take such a decision are missing.So, to be on the safe side you must do what the FMC requires. If you skip it you could face no consequences ok, but if it happened in the reality I bet everybody would follow the FMC warnings.

He's describing what I mentioned, just in the wrong way...I pulled what I was talking about from the pilot who mills about here. He posted two tutorials on YouTube outlining the procedure, but with much more finesse than you see in the above posts.Here it is:

http://vimeo.com/27673259

What I find interesting in this video is that he is flying, in the later part of the approach, with autopilot off and autothrust still on.However, Boeing state that whenever autopilot is off, the autothrust should be off as well.I wonder how much this advice is ignored in the real world. For me in the sim, I know the aircraft is far easier to fly with both off, than A/T still on.

What I find interesting in this video is that he is flying, in the later part of the approach, with autopilot off and autothrust still on.However, Boeing state that whenever autopilot is off, the autothrust should be off as well.I wonder how much this advice is ignored in the real world. For me in the sim, I know the aircraft is far easier to fly with both off, than A/T still on.

I don't know pilot limitations on the NGs, but on the classics you are 100% right, autothrottle must not be used when AP is OFF...

It does say in the Boeing manuals suplied by PMDG, A/T off with A/P off.can't remember which section.I'm not on my simming PC so can't look at the moment.

MattHow does 285 at 11000 ASL sound normal when the target speed on the descent page is 258 kts and the speed at all waypoints on the legs page during descent is 258 kts?Michael Cubine

I missed that 258 target speed. Then yes, it's not correct and it I agree that it's an N1 issue.

I very rarely need to use the spoilers on descent. IRL.. I believe its pretty normal for crews to start their descents way way early, like 50 miles prior to the indicated T/D. I've tried it from that far out in the NGX once, didn't work so well. Regardless, I always initiate the descent at LEAST 5 miles prior to the T/D using the DES NOW function on the DES page of the FMC. I guess it depends on the complexity of the STAR your trying to fly as well as winds... but the idea is to give VNAV a head start instead of just running right into the descent path with the engines at cruise power... even with tailwinds, I hardly need to use the "boards" to keep the speed.

50 miles is pretty early. If I'm at or below FL350, I'll let VNAV start the descent at the T/D. If I'm above, I'll add 4 miles per 1000' above FL350. Eg. If I'm at FL370, I'll DESCEND NOW 8mn before the T/D.

Agreed 100%.That's a non sense deciding not to follow FMC warnings, because the criteria to take such a decision are missing.So, to be on the safe side you must do what the FMC requires. If you skip it you could face no consequences ok, but if it happened in the reality I bet everybody would follow the FMC warnings.

The latest guidance from my company is that you don't have to do anything if the DRAG REQUIRED message comes up. Their theory is that in another five minutes, you'll probably be slow and the throttle will come up. Unless it's a long trend toward being to high/fast, I won't intervene.

The latest guidance from my company is that you don't have to do anything if the DRAG REQUIRED message comes up. Their theory is that in another five minutes, you'll probably be slow and the throttle will come up. Unless it's a long trend toward being to high/fast, I won't intervene.

Their " theory " and you will " probably " be slow....... to be honest I do not like the fact a company bases passengers' life on theories and probabilities......I think that you, pilots, sometimes apply those air brakes depending on your feeling and data, instead of always following Companies fuel saving theories & probabilities....am I aright ?

Their " theory " and you will " probably " be slow....... to be honest I do not like the fact a company bases passengers' life on theories and probabilities......I think that you, pilots, sometimes apply those air brakes depending on your feeling and data, instead of always following Companies fuel saving theories & probabilities....am I aright ?

Drag Required is not a limitation or a safety issue. It just means, "Hey, I'm 10 knots faster than I thought I was going to be."Let's say I had a 280/.78 descent planned. If I saw myself going high for whatever reason, I could SPD INT (into VNAV SPD) and select maybe 290kts until I get back to profile.That's all the jet is doing when it goes 10 knots faster. It just gives you a message that it's doing so. It'll keep on the path by increasing speed."Drag Required" is a 2 second look at your delta V, and that's it. It doesn't look at trends or the weather ahead or traffic, etc. That's where being a pilot comes in.

Their " theory " and you will " probably " be slow....... to be honest I do not like the fact a company bases passengers' life on theories and probabilities......I think that you, pilots, sometimes apply those air brakes depending on your feeling and data, instead of always following Companies fuel saving theories & probabilities....am I aright ?

Now that is a remarkably foolish thing to say, don't you think? To suggest that a pilot should blindly obey a computer is the exact opposite of considering "passengers' life".

Now that is a remarkably foolish thing to say, don't you think? To suggest that a pilot should blindly obey a computer is the exact opposite of considering "passengers' life".

I haven't understand yet why a pilot should not apply DRAG when the FMC requires it. What's the reason behind not listening to the FMC ?It also depend in my opinion ( and I may be wrong of course ) when the DREAG REQUIRED is ignored. If in the initial or middle phases of descent or in later stages when approaching too fast may lead to adopt an avoidable measure to reduce speed f.i. landing the gear down slightly in advance or similar.

I haven't understand yet why a pilot should not apply DRAG when the FMC requires it. What's the reason behind not listening to the FMC ?It also depend in my opinion ( and I may be wrong of course ) when the DREAG REQUIRED is ignored. If in the initial or middle phases of descent or in later stages when approaching too fast may lead to adopt an avoidable measure to reduce speed f.i. landing the gear down slightly in advance or similar.

I'd say this is where the Sim with the High N1 problem is giving many simmers a bad precedent to learn from.The Drag Required in the normal jet is transient. The jet will more often than not be on path without any intervention. (That's not true if your N1 is ~40%.) If things are trending and not simply instantaneously fast or high, then that's where experience of a pilot is required above the simple FMC message.When pilots look at this in the cockpit, they're more likely to say, "Are we going to be high?" and not, "Are we fast right this second?"