I hope this doesn't turn into one of those out-of-control conversations. My goal here isn't to criticize. Instead, I'm hoping to share my quick impressions of my first flights since installing the full version, in the hope that I can be helpful to other FSX users coming to X-Plane.A very quick take:I loaded the BK 117 at KGAI at night and flew over to KDCA. Extraordinarily good experience. The helicopter flight model in X-Plane is much more fluid and responsive than the one in FSX. Even the best FSX workaround - the Dodosim Bell 206 - feels a little mechanistic in comparison to the BK 117.Night flight, as others have noted, is remarkable - captures a sensation of real flight in a way that I've never experienced in any other sim. I'm running without HDR, by the way - HDR looks even better at night but kills my performance. I know improvements are possible but I'm afraid it may turn out to be like bloom in FSX - beautiful and deadly.For the return flight, I switched to daylight and took off over Washington, DC. First reaction - deep shock. A post-apocalyptic Washington in which the surviving residents seem to have taken up farming in order to survive in the now-rural landscape. No White House. No Capitol. No monuments. Hardly any buidlings at all. Barely any roads.Ah, roads! I'd been running mostly at default settings. I decided to turn up the road networks. At one notch below the top setting, the road network had filled in to the point where I was able to recognize the city layout. Then I turned up autogen, also to one notch below the highest level, and a good supply of buildings appeared. Granted, they weren't Washington buildings - they seem to have been imported from the Bronx (for some reason, the urban Autogen buildings looks to me like the mid-rise NYC tenements and apartment buildings that I grew up in and around). So that was something.Then I descended to about 500 feet and followed Connecticut Avenue to Dupont Circle, then picked up Massachusetts Avenue to Wisconsin Avenue and followed that over my home in Bethesda (stopping over my streetcorner), then past Rockville to KGAI. Another very enjoyable experience. Again, none of the buildings were right but the road network was remakably good. I'd never been able to follow local roads using UTX in FSX, but here it was easy. Both the road width and the way the roads followed the terrain countours were quite accurate and allowed me to pick up landmarks very well. I was able to locate not only my current building but the complex a few miles from here where I used to live.My reaction to all this is that I'm very hopeful about where X-Plane 10 could eventually go. I'm not sure why, but the IFR (I Follow Roads) experience made me think that there's a good template in place and that once it's filled in with accurate scenery (and yes, some seasonal textures would be nice), this will be a very good environment for low and slow.I haven't yet tried high altitude fixed-wing flight. I'm expecting good things from the night environment and will keep an open mind about what it looks like right now in daylight.My bottom line - it's going to take a while - maybe a year - but it'll get where it needs to be if Laminar continues to evole it and third-party material comes along.I'm still struggling with controller settings, as my other recent thread suggests. I feel like I'm getting closer and at my best, I get a feel of flight that's an improvement on FSX.Subjectively, I feel torn. I have no loyalty to FSX itself, but I do feel attached to my favorite add-ons (like my A2A aircraft and the Aerosoft 4X Katana) and sceneries (Orbx, the new Aerosoft Antarctica). That's where the emotional connection comes in, and I'm not yet ready to give them up, But I remind myself that I don't have to. Right now it's just a matter of launching one program or another. Eventually I'd like to make a choice because it's expensive to live in both platforms, at least if you're a buyer of add-ons. But for the moment it's fun to watch things evolve.I'll keep experimenting.Again, I hope this is helpful to some of you who are sitting right now between the two worlds.

Well said.

I loaded the BK 117 at KGAI at night and flew over to KDCA. Extraordinarily good experience. The helicopter flight model in X-Plane is much more fluid and responsive than the one in FSX. Even the best FSX workaround - the Dodosim Bell 206 - feels a little mechanistic in comparison to the BK 117.

My State Police pilot friend tells me the Dodosim is absolutely realistic. Out of curiosity, how can you compare the two (they're apples to oranges anyway)? Are you a whirlybird pilot? Just curious Alan.

Exactly, the promise of XPX and the alluring qualities (wonderful add-ons) of FSX. It's not one or the other, especially when you own both.

My State Police pilot friend tells me the Dodosim is absolutely realistic. Out of curiosity, how can you compare the two (they're apples to oranges anyway)? Are you a whirlybird pilot? Just curious Alan.

I'm not a helo pilot, nor am I a pilot of any kind. So my opinion needs to be taken with many, many grains of salt... or maybe just thrown overboard altogether. I'd be fine with that, BTW.What I'm reacting to is two things. One is the reaction of some sim-knowlegable RW helo pilots like Scott (Nightsta1ker) Swanberg over at Hovercontrol. He's very positive about the X-Plane helo flight model in general and the BK 117 in particular (along with the Dreamfoil Bell 206 and the Robinson R22, and Brett Sumpter's freeware MD500). He also does excellent mods for FSX helos and as expected is an admirer of the Dodo.The other is my sense as an observer of how physical objects seem to move in a fluid - the same sense that tells me, for example, that Rob Young's flight models for FSX are better than most others because they capture a sense of mass and inertia, and a smooth transition from one state of flight to another. In the case of the BK117 vs. the Dodo, the differences are very subtle. But, for example, when transitioning into and out of translational lift, there's an abruptness to the Dodo, as though torque effect has just been switched on or off. The BK117 transitions a bit more smoothly and fluently.Again, these are very, very subtle differences, and the Dodo 206 is one of the great achievements in FSX. I've just passed the written for student pilot at Hovercontrol (admittedly a pretty easy thing to do) and hope to use the Dodo for instruction and the certified pilot exam. It's a wonderful training platform.Hope this helps clarify things. Goes without saying, but given your qualifications, I'll defer to you on all things flight model. I'd also love to get your friend's take on the X-Plane helos, especially the good payware ones, if he's so inclined.

Fatastic post Allan,I enjoyed your wit and humor,And like you saId,Do you really have to let go of FSX just to enjoy XP10?Of course not.

Alan,Good observations on the scenery. I am quite familiar with the roads you mentioned.

I'm not a helo pilot, nor am I a pilot of any kind. So my opinion needs to be taken with many, many grains of salt... or maybe just thrown overboard altogether. I'd be fine with that, BTW.What I'm reacting to is two things. One is the reaction of some sim-knowlegable RW helo pilots like Scott (Nightsta1ker) Swanberg over at Hovercontrol. He's very positive about the X-Plane helo flight model in general and the BK 117 in particular (along with the Dreamfoil Bell 206 and the Robinson R22, and Brett Sumpter's freeware MD500). He also does excellent mods for FSX helos and as expected is an admirer of the Dodo.The other is my sense as an observer of how physical objects seem to move in a fluid - the same sense that tells me, for example, that Rob Young's flight models for FSX are better than most others because they capture a sense of mass and inertia, and a smooth transition from one state of flight to another. In the case of the BK117 vs. the Dodo, the differences are very subtle. But, for example, when transitioning into and out of translational lift, there's an abruptness to the Dodo, as though torque effect has just been switched on or off. The BK117 transitions a bit more smoothly and fluently.Again, these are very, very subtle differences, and the Dodo 206 is one of the great achievements in FSX. I've just passed the written for student pilot at Hovercontrol (admittedly a pretty easy thing to do) and hope to use the Dodo for instruction and the certified pilot exam. It's a wonderful training platform.Hope this helps clarify things. Goes without saying, but given your qualifications, I'll defer to you on all things flight model. I'd also love to get your friend's take on the X-Plane helos, especially the good payware ones, if he's so inclined.

Thanks Alan. Interesting.Unfortunately my friend's interest in simulation only goes as far as me and another friend's simulator we set up at the flight school. If I can talk the owner of that system into it, I'll install X-Plane and purchase the 117 and get his input in the next few weeks. At the flight school we have a certain very expensive cyclic and collective hardware, and it has always kept me interested in pursuing an add on commercial helicopter rating.I've been trying to access X-Plane, but I can't find the time. Your comments have piqued my interest more.