I don't know, looks like an upgraded version of the old Bush Flying days; we used to have great times Ken

Edited February 8, 201214 yr by wizard01

You wouldn't by any chance be on the Flight beta team?

I applied, but no I didn't get the beta.I was part of the 'product use analysis' done on FS2004, and was on the beta for FSX.

The one thing the three of you have in common is that you have not used the Beta, and it shows

Well, no, but even if I had I would expect a beta to be just that - beta. The beta of FSX was one plane, one airport, one area of scenery, minimal UI. It didn't reflect the final product in any regard other than the main codebase.I've been on betas for many other types of software, from Windows Vista & 7 to Autodesk Revit, and the whole point of beta-phase is testing on a wider range of systems than the devs have available.I'm sure you all know this, but for those who haven't ever run betas the whole point is to find out if the software works properly in real environments, and doesn't do stuff like delete every file with a 'q' in it if you try to print on an HP Laserjet, or just bsod if you have a logitech trackball driver installed.It does surprise me that for a culture that EXPECTS to have to buy, or at least download a LOT of addons to get their sim the way they like it there seems to be so much fear over a system that might make that process a bit easier. I certainly feel for the bricks-and-mortar, and even 3rd party online merchants; but that is the nature of digital business today.I see the same things occurring in my industry - architecture - although our software is an exponent or two more complex than a flight sim, so the process is taking longer - but the writing is already on the wall for CAD software resellers - the future market is going to be highly modular with open (or at least public-SDK) software with app-writers providing the necessary micro-customisation at a task level.

Flight is taking a big step backwards in replayability and in many other areas.

I don't agree - I think Flight looks like the best change for the hobby in a LONG time.Just look at the file uploads to today on Avsim - NINE 737 repaints and SIXTEEN A320 repaints. Now, I am sure the artists are talented, but really, if you search the file library for 737 repaints, the FS2004/FSX lists come up with over 4,500 repaints. Since about 7,100 737s have been built since 1967, I would estimate that there is a repaint for just about EVERY airworthy 737 in existence.Now a lot of people like 737s, sure, but how many are needed?If anything, the flight simulation hobby, as it currently stands is FAR to heavily focussed on airliners - specifically medium-range commuter jets. Presumably this is because it is difficult to create content for missions or flight plans other than point A to B, but I hope that in time via the store more adventurous missions might be created - search-and-rescue, fire fighting or fire spotting, mineral exploration, wildlife filming, entertainment filming - the myriad of uses for aircraft beyond moving stuff from here to there.

It's surprising that so many people think that Feb 29th indicates the FINAL PRODUCT. I know MS doesn't think that way. I'm am so thankful that the series hasn't been cancelled (as I did a few years ago). It's going to be FUN to go along for the ride while Flight evolves from it's humble beginnings on Feb 29th to what it will eventually become. Feb 29th is not the end of Flight, it's the beginning of a new flight simulator. One that won't crash-to-desktop on final after an three hour flight or reduce your experience to a slide-show.

EXACTLY! The whole point is FUN, like discovering the world of FS4 all over again!

Well, no, but even if I had I would expect a beta to be just that - beta. The beta of FSX was one plane, one airport, one area of scenery, minimal UI. It didn't reflect the final product in any regard other than the main codebase.

I've got a serious problem with that statement, unless you were on a beta of FSX to which no one else was privy. As it happens, I'm still to this day running the FSX software I received as part of the beta team. Granted, the final release were the ISO files for the two RTM DVDs, but still in all the entire content was available to the team from day one.Most of my focus was on the SDK and the development tools, so I spent the majority of my time in 3d modeling, and building the panel/gauge systems for eventual release at or near the time that FSX was launched. :( Now it is true that the beta of the DEMO was limited to a few limited Carribean islands...

The beta of FSX was one plane, one airport, one area of scenery, minimal UI. It didn't reflect the final product in any regard other than the main codebase.

Haven't had so much fun in years!If you want to read crap, come to the Avsim forums ! Whaddayamean ONE plane? I think they've pulled your leg and put you on the 'beta' of Frogger maybe? Oh wait, that had only cars in it ....... :( :( :(

The beta of FSX was one plane, one airport, one area of scenery, minimal UI. It didn't reflect the final product in any regard other than the main codebase.

This is the crap I'm talking about. Clearly this guy is making himself out to be more than he is to justify his position on Flight. He wasn't on no FSX beta team... It's almost like hired plants are in here boosting Flight and when you challenge them they've been around since MS DOS. :(

Edited February 10, 201214 yr by Dillon

and when you challenge them they've been around since MS DOS.

Sounds exactly like you. :(

If you want to read crap, come to the Avsim forums ! Whaddayamean ONE plane? I think they've pulled your leg and put you on the 'beta' of Frogger maybe? Oh wait, that had only cars in it .......

Yeah, thanks for the sarcasm; it really helped get your point across.The previous post pointed out I was probably on the beta of the demo - that was the version I had. I wasn't a full beta developer with the full set of scenery, I wasn't aware there was one; one of the advantages to living in the Antipodes, heh?So I stand corrected, I was on the beta of the demo, not the full version.My comments about the purpose of a beta still stand though - it's not the final product.

This is the crap I'm talking about. Clearly this guy is making himself out to be more than he is to justify his position on Flight. He wasn't on no FSX beta team... It's almost like hired plants are in here boosting Flight and when you challenge them they've been around since MS DOS. :(

See post above.As for hired plant - I wish!I do have a smidgeon of street cred you know - search the Avsim file library for the Rutan Boomerang!Also... this - the Avtek 400 has been on hiatus ever since Flight was announced. It is still being worked on in Max, but I haven't done any conversions to MDL for a while.I'm clear on my position on Flight - it is the basis for an entirely new franchise with a modular design from the base up; specifically designed for expansion through a moderated 'app' store-style marketplace. I'm not part of any team or marketing, I'm just using observations of other such marketplaces on the Internet and using the small amount of business sense I've picked up over the years - it is a logical step for MS to take, and while I feel sorry for the 3DP resellers I think it is a great opportunity for 3DP content makers.I am not at all concerned that there are no airliners in Flight YET, just as I am certain there WILL BE airliners within a few months or so.I don't understand the claims of the 'serious simming stuff' being removed from flight as I don't understand what 'serious simming stuff' actually IS; from what I read it appears to mean jet-powered aircraft with a TOW of more than 20t and seating at least 50 pax, preferably a B737 or A320 (if there was ever a more appropriate name - AirBUS!)Better frame-rates, better flight models, better scenery, modular design, online store, SECURITY for 3PDs; it sure seems an improvement over FSX to me!Maybe it will fail; in which case well done to the critics, you can all sit back keep flying FSX as PCs get quicker and more powerful.Maybe it will be brilliant; in which case you are free to do exactly the same as before!I think it will be great, because I can see wider opportunities not only to get an influx of younger people involved in flight simming, but also opportunities for smaller 3PDs to access the market in a way that wasn't previously possible. It's that second point that really has me excited, based on how there has been a resurgence in PC gaming in the last 12 months due entirely to coming-of-age of indie modding communities, combined with cheaply available toolsets and SDKs (iOS, Android, XNA, .Net, VS, Source, even Java) and easily accessible marketplaces (Apple App Store, Steam, the Indie Packs, EA's Origin, Android).

It has become VERY expensive to make a flightsim, which is why there are now so few of them. We all want realistic, real world scenery, along with high resolution graphics, plus all the bells and whistles. The bar keeps being raise higher and higher ... and so does the development costs in creating a sim that will even come close to meeting the expectations of hardcore simmers.

Flight Simming is a SMALL market - the only way it will survive beyond 1-man-band projects like XP is for it to move to the moderated marketplace model - it's that simple.

I find helicopters easier to fly with a mouse than a joystick.

How many helos are out there that you can fly with a mouse? You're looking just for something "easy". The beauty of flight simulation is the inherent complexity of flight and the skills needed to master it. But today people seems afraid of complexity. Everything should be eeeaaaaasyyy and fuuuuuun, with no required effort to learn and improve. That's the perfect consumer, he will buy anyhting as long as it is "fuuuun".

Status quo between MS and TPD may change in the future. Who knows ...

How many helos are out there that you can fly with a mouse? You're looking just for something "easy".

I fly with realism on 100%.I personally find a mouse easier to control the cyclic of a helicopter, especially if I want very fine control. I still control collective with the X52.I'm hardly a casual simmer if I've spent $250 on a HOTAS joystick!Of course I want to have fun while flight simming - isn't that the point? If you aren't having fun there is something wrong. As for easy, well, landing the Cub on a bus from cockpit view only? That's simple, isn't it?