Eaglesoft SR-22 review feedback

[twsbbl 0]

Comment to:

http://www.avsim.com/pages/0306/SR22/SR22.htm

 

 

First, let me say that the SR-22 appears to be a fantastic, superbly designed aircraft simulation. I might find myself agreeing with everything the reviewer says about the product, had I actually had an opportunity to buckle in and fly it.

 

Instead, I uninstalled it and am in the process of requesting a refund.

 

Here's why:

 

I have enjoyed a few of the more sophisticated aircraft sims on the market for the MSFS platform, and all of them have shipped with rather extensive documentation of on-board systems and avionics. This has always been helpful in understanding how to competently operate the aircraft. They also have shipped with basic operational documents, such as a Pilot's Operating Handbook or Aircraft Operating Manual. These are crucial documents for a pilot keen on learning a new type of aircraft, and how to correctly operate it according to manufacturer recommendations.

 

The Eaglesoft product ships with neither. Instead, after purchase, download and installation, this new customer was disappointed and rather frustrated to discover that neither of these documents existed. The accompanying readme text file included a dated link to a page on the Cirrus website that no longer exists, where one could have in the past, presumably downloaded either of these documents. Currently, Cirrus requires an aircraft serial number in order to download this documentation.

 

Bummer. So begins my experience with "Support". Note to CEOs: Don't handle customer support directly. Chances are you'll be pretty bad at it, Ron.

 

Anyway, I initiate contact with Support, hoping that maybe I've just missed something, and there actually is such a basic piece of documentation somewhere in the product installation. I'm a bit flustered at this point because I'd spent 20 minutes or so looking around the Internet to no avail, and I really want to get this thing airborne.

 

The first response was to point me to the documentation directory, which I already knew only contained avionics documentation.

 

Having pointed that out to "Support" in my reply, their suggestion was to "drop over to Cirrus Design for a real world AOM".

 

I then responded that they do not distribute those documents without a valid aircraft serial number. I'd noted that the link provided in the readme 404d, as I mentioned above in this post.

 

Support responded that they are "not allowed to distribute real world aviation documents, so my best bet would be the Internet.

 

Wait, what? Because I don't want to misrepresent anything here, and hide the fact that by now I was a bit hot under the collar, my response to that was:

 

 

"Interesting.

 

Both my PMDG 747 and my FSD Seneca come with detailed operating handbooks. Is this a copyright or intellectual property issue? I would find it odd that, assuming you've obtained permission from Cirrus to reproduce their IP and trade dress in the form of a 3D model, you couldn't also distribute even a basic POH. If it's an FAA issue, the others seem to get around it by including prominent notices in the documents that the information is presented for entertainment and desktop flight simulator use, not for real world operation. Also, in either case, how did you manage to include such detailed documentation for the avionics equipment? What makes a POH so different?

 

Basically, I purchased a product with the full expectation that it would be well documented. Not including a POH with your product makes it far from well documented. That is a purchase decision consideration that your customers are entitled to prior to purchase.

 

I have run into a couple of problems that might be answered if such a document were available. After start, cylinder temps go quickly into the caution area, RPM is abnormally high. Running the throttle up even moderately pegs RPM to the red, and the cylinder temps go well into the red. EGT seems normal, but again, how would I know without operating information for the engine? The aircraft will not move at all, even at full throttle. I cannot locate anything remotely resembling a condition/pitch control for the prop. I don't know if this is automatic or fixed in this aircraft, or if I'm missing something. Lacking an operating handbook, I cannot determine if something is wrong with the product, the installation, or if I'm missing something somewhere in the process of operating it.

 

The Internet would be a good source of information for a freeware airplane that is understandably lacking in detailed documentation. Telling a customer who just payed you $30 for a premium product that they'll have to find documentation for it on their own reflects an extraordinarily poor customer service attitude, and frankly means that this will be the last product I purchase from you."

 

Well, this set "Support" off. So much so that he didn't really endeavor to actually read what I had written. "Support"'s response:

 

"Tim, it is obvious that you are not well versed in simulator operation or possibly unaware of throttle operation limitations in the simulated environment. Mixture and Prop levers should be full forward in the sim environment and brakes must be released. Sorry to disappoint but we state clearly that our products, while quite realistic, are aimed at and built for entertainment purposes only.

If dissatisfied for any reason see our refund link and policy near the bottom of our FAQs Page here: http://www.eaglesoft...dg.com/faq.htm"

 

It just got ugly from there. If the person manning that "Support" dialog was actually Ron, then.. wow.

 

In fairness, as the conversation escalated beyond this, I myself said things in frustration that I regret having said. I sincerely hope Ron is not actually the pompous I TRIED TO USE A PROFANITY HERE - AREN'T I STUPID! I accused him of being. I, after all, am not the incompetent idiot he accused me of being.

 

It was just a very unpleasant exchange, and I'd never in more than 15 years of flight simming had such an experience.

 

Is there no bloody condition lever in the cockpit of the SR2x? If I'd have found it the other night, I'd probably be flying it right now.

 

Documentation. You can produce the most badass, complete, accurate simulation ever. If your documentation is shoddy, as this clearly is, you're going to from time to time come across people like me.

[Glynn 405]

Hello

But how did it fly ?

If I wanted to read about the SR22 i would buy a book, usually I buy Addon aircraft to fly them

[twsbbl 0]

I don't know how it flies. I never did locate the prop/condition lever. I'm sure it's there somewhere. I was so turned off by the experience I uninstalled the product and requested a refund.

[Stick 0]

I don't know how it flies. I never did locate the prop/condition lever. I'm sure it's there somewhere. I was so turned off by the experience I uninstalled the product and requested a refund.

 

It doesn't have a prop/condition lever

 

The SR22 uses a "combined power lever" that manages both manifold pressure and RPM, as a 'power' component.

 

But I take your point that without documentation, as a newcomer to the type you maybe wouldn't know that.

 

Aside, it's an excellent add-on, one of Eaglesoft's best. It is getting old now (released in 2007 I think) but I still fly it, as it has no real competition yet. (Carenado are releasing a SR22 soon).

 

[Glynn 405]

I don't know how it flies. I never did locate the prop/condition lever

 

Hello

Had you done your research you would have discovered that the Real aircraft has neither of these controls.

http://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-reports/pistons/cirrus-sr22

[twsbbl 0]

Hello

Had you done your research you would have discovered that the Real aircraft has neither of these controls.

 

And that's exactly the point. I can't think of a single time I've ever purchased a product that was so obviously lacking in basic documentation that I had to spend any significant amount of time researching the Internet just for a basic understanding of how it operates. Until now that is. The primary resource they suggest in the readme is a page on Cirrus's website that no longer exists. You can't download their operating documents anymore apparently without an aircraft serial number.

 

And "support" only added to the confusion by suggesting that "the mixture and prop levers must be full forward". Ok, where's that prop lever again?

 

Again, I'm sure it's a fantastic sim. Everything I've read confirms that.

[n4gix 4,947]

The first response was to point me to the documentation directory, which I already knew only contained avionics documentation.

 

That's not quite accurate. There is also a sixteen page Cockpit Layout Manual that descibes and illustrates what is where and how to use it...

 

The "prop" and "mixture" levers referred to are the physical ones that may exist if you have the hardware.

 

Page 14 of the SR22 Turbo Cockpit Layout Manual.pdf file (or version equivalent) shows and describes the controls available on the 2d throttle console and/or virtual cockpit 3d controls. There are two control levers; one for power and another for mixture.

 

The SR22 uses an engine management computer to handle the constant speed prop automatically, which is why there is no physical "prop" lever.

 

Ten seconds of a "Google Search" using the keywords "SR22 POH" found these links where one may freely download the Pilots Operating Handbook for all models of the SR22 produced to date, including the newer Perspective model. No "serial number" required... :Thinking:

 

http://www.cirruslin.../onlinepoh.aspx

[twsbbl 0]

That's not quite accurate. There is also a sixteen page Cockpit Layout Manual that descibes and illustrates what is where and how to use it...

 

The "prop" and "mixture" levers referred to are the physical ones that may exist if you have the hardware.

 

Page 14 of the SR22 Turbo Cockpit Layout Manual.pdf file (or version equivalent) shows and describes the controls available on the 2d throttle console and/or virtual cockpit 3d controls. There are two control levers; one for power and another for mixture.

 

The SR22 uses an engine management computer to handle the constant speed prop automatically, which is why there is no physical "prop" lever.

 

Ten seconds of a "Google Search" using the keywords "SR22 POH" found these links where one may freely download the Pilots Operating Handbook for all models of the SR22 produced to date, including the newer Perspective model. No "serial number" required... :Thinking:

 

http://www.cirruslin.../onlinepoh.aspx

 

After the link provided in the readme 404d, I did some poking around on the Cirrus site, and ended up here:

 

http://www.cirruslin...ervicepubs.aspx

 

You might imagine why I didn't look much further. Keep in mind, I wanted to fly the damned airplane that evening. Not spend the evening searching the Internet for documentation that should have come with the product.

 

I read through the cockpit layout document, and nothing in that document makes the prop function particularly obvious.

 

I still contend that while the documentation is abundant for the avionics, it is sorely lacking in basic operating procedures. Every other advanced sim I've purchased has managed to include it. Why should I have to scour the Internet for this kind of information? It should be provided in the included documentation. If the publishers are going to rely on externally sourced documents to support their product, the very least they could do is ensure that the external links they provide are accurate and functional.

 

But that isn't really what set me off. His response is. it was both insulting and misleading about the very product in question, considering that as has already been pointed out, there is no prop lever.

 

Ten seconds of a "Google Search" using the keywords "SR22 POH" found these links where one may freely download the Pilots Operating Handbook for all models of the SR22 produced to date, including the newer Perspective model. No "serial number" required...

 

http://www.cirruslin.../onlinepoh.aspx

 

And how would one possibly know which of those documents is relevant to the simulated product?

[n4gix 4,947]

After the link provided in the readme 404d, I did some poking around on the Cirrus site, and ended up here:

 

http://www.cirruslin...ervicepubs.aspx

 

You might imagine why I didn't look much further. Keep in mind, I wanted to fly the damned airplane that evening. Not spend the evening searching the Internet for documentation that should have come with the product.

 

I read through the cockpit layout document, and nothing in that document makes the prop function particularly obvious.

 

The link above requires the customer's serial number so that it can be included in the generated .pdf file, since the intent is that the person downloading will be printing out the POH and carrying it in the aircraft as required by FAA regulations. Such documents must have the serial number printed on them.

 

Cirrus refused Eaglesoft permission to include their copyrighted POH in the download package. It would have been extremely cost prohibitive and time consuming to author a new "SIM POH" especially given that no quoting from the Cirrus POH would be allowed.

 

I should think that the absence of any mention for a "prop lever" in and of itself is ample evidence that no such device exists or is required... :Thinking:

[twsbbl 0]

I should think that the absence of any mention for a "prop lever" in and of itself is ample evidence that no such device exists or is required...

 

Point taken. I should also think that the person who modeled the aircraft telling me that the prop and mixture levers need to be full forward kindof muddies the waters here more than a little bit. ;)

[realkewl 3]

How did you uninstall it? I cannot seem to find an uninstall program...it does not show up in my add/remove for windows 7.

 

Why I need to uninstall and get a refund? One it's old and two it just doesn't work well with nvidia surround.

 

-Ray

[n4gix 4,947]

Point taken. I should also think that the person who modeled the aircraft telling me that the prop and mixture levers need to be full forward kindof muddies the waters here more than a little bit. ;)

 

The prop and mixture levers referred to in that reply is to the physical, hardware levers many people have on their yokes, joysticks and/or separate CH Quad Lever controllers. These must be fully forward at all times.

 

Secondly, I am the modeler and the panel/gauge programmer for this series of Cirrus aircraft, not the person who answered you... :Nerd:

[twsbbl 0]

The prop and mixture levers referred to in that reply is to the physical, hardware levers many people have on their yokes, joysticks and/or separate CH Quad Lever controllers. These must be fully forward at all times.

 

Secondly, I am the modeler and the panel/gauge programmer for this series of Cirrus aircraft, not the person who answered you...

 

I'm pretty much over it, but since you replied, I'll respond.

 

Nowhere in the included documentation does it mention hardware controllers. Nowhere. Your documentation provides a broken link to the Cirrus website to download the POH. Read my remarks above to see how that is offputting to say the least.

 

Lastly, cost prohibitive? To write up a basic "How to start and fly this airplane we just sold to you for money?" I TRIED TO USE A PROFANITY HERE - AREN'T I STUPID!. Lazy. Not cost prohibitive. You don't have to copy the manual verbatim, just provide some basic information. You don't do that. You could. You don't.

 

As I said in comments above, it's a beautiful sim. It's unfortunate that it's poorly documented and unprofessionally supported.

[N400QW 205]

FYI. I have archived the entire communication with our support forum staff and between yourself and I.
Would you like for me to publish the archive or let this idiocy become water under the bridge?

Fact is that you are disatisfied customer. Our policy for disatisfied customers is to offer them a refund and make them whole financially.
Past that we have zero obliigation to allow you to abuse us or our efforts to support our product for your enjoyment.

Bill has been more than helpful as have we. You've received a refund and now we are just done with this BS.

[pescador11 0]

Thanks for the review.