It guess it would depend on how one differentiates "criticism" from "sniping"

 

I always thought criticism in this context would be helpful suggestions for improvement, or polite disagreement as to direction and resource allocation.

 

As has been pointed out, Scrufftducks positive efforts to suggest desired improvements in a constructive or at least polite manner trump in my mind ten pages of "MS sucks, those greedy I TRIED TO USE A PROFANITY HERE - AREN'T I STUPID!s!!" threads.

 

Any attempt to suggest that any flavors of the latter are constructive criticism, desirable to the health of the forum is going to be a head scratcher for me. (though I don't make those decisions, I feel at least for now that I can safely rebut those statements, though there appears to be a feeling that doing so can now be considered a form of censorship!)

 

The previous thread I was involved in, protected under that aegis: sputtered to a limp-noodle end when people were given free room to be constructively critical.......

 

And did not have much to say after that, which was not in any way surprising.

Hello

Sorry to hear that Arwen, they win again

 

Who won? AVSIM, the flight supporters, the FSX supporters, the many of us who like both FSX and Flight or nobody?

 

I ask You again, Who won?

 

 

Please indulge me and answer this question too:

What would become of these Forums if all users, members of the Board of Directors, Staff, Administrators, Moderators and such, started to express their own gut impressions and thoughts about each and every product mentioned in this site (Game, Sim, add-on, 3PD, etc.)?

Many seem to ignore the fact that criticizing Flight is a form of love toward it. If the loved one betrays on each aspect of its structure only the fool accepts that without complaining and proposing how to fix the illness.

 

This is what a forum is made for, of course remaining into the forum rules and without insulting each other.

Again, the forum is meant for enthusiasts. There is no freedom of speech here, as some people think. This forum should be a fun place for Flight lovers and imho that fun should be protected and if that means that lots of negative posts will be removed without notice: AVSIM has my approval.

 

So probably you should discuss the issue with another great fan, that just some posts ago wrote, in response to Arwen:

 

"A statement such as this can only be a Flight fan club, or one can only post positives about Flight, is just plain wrong."

 

I continue to find amusing that some adult people seem completely unable to manage a normal dialectics about a game. I wonder what would happen if the argument was more serious :Thinking:

 

A.

Who won? AVSIM, the flight supporters, the FSX supporters, the many of us who like both FSX and Flight or nobody?

 

I ask You again, Who won?

 

 

Please indulge me and answer this question too:

What would become of these Forums if all users, members of the Board of Directors, Staff, Administrators, Moderators and such, started to express their own gut impressions and thoughts about each and every product mentioned in this site (Game, Sim, add-on, 3PD, etc.)?

 

Its all very strange. I go to the XP10 forum and post things positive, or hopefully helpful. Why would I go there to simply say their product sucks, without saying (politely) why and how I believe the issue could be addressed in a way that all could agree on?

 

Why on earth, and what would be the point to go there just to vent occasionally and make catty comments?

 

The same people who would react like wildcats if I were to invade their favorite forum with similar comments, react with "surprise" when their comments receive scant favor here. And we are much, much more gentle here with it.

 

I myself have only asked (usually fairly mildly, I think) from time to time 'Whats the point? What are you trying to accomplish by speaking in this way?" At which point the answer usually is along the lines of "I have a right!!! You cant take criticism!!"

 

At which point I wonder how well they will remember that when somebody from outside their favorite circle comes to their forum.

Many seem to ignore the fact that criticizing Flight is a form of love toward it. If the loved one betrays on each aspect of its structure only the fool accepts that without complaining and proposing how to fix the illness.

 

This is what a forum is made for, of course remaining into the forum rules and without insulting each other.

Flight seems to be the " Love of your life " :Just Kidding:

 

Fred.

Sorry to hear that Arwen, they win again

 

There are only losers here when it comes to all this. I also wonder who you think has won.

 

Its all very strange. I go to the XP10 forum and post things positive, or hopefully helpful. Why would I go there to simply say their product sucks, without saying (politely) why and how I believe the issue could be addressed in a way that all could agree on?

 

Why on earth, and what would be the point to go there just to vent occasionally and make catty comments?

 

The same people who would react like wildcats if I were to invade their favorite forum with similar comments, react with "surprise" when their comments receive scant favor here.

 

My point exactly. I just used too many words.

 

So probably you should discuss the issue with another great fan, that just some posts ago wrote, in response to Arwen:

 

"A statement such as this can only be a Flight fan club, or one can only post positives about Flight, is just plain wrong."

 

I continue to find amusing that some adult people seem completely unable to manage a normal dialectics about a game. I wonder what would happen if the argument was more serious :Thinking:

 

Er... I fully agree with Don. If you had also quoted his next line, you would have seen he said already what I just said. Don said "Now the naysayers, those that hang around here that don't like Flight, don't run Flight, and only want to critique what it lacks for them, will love a statement like that and will gladly agree." and that's why my post was about. HiFlyer' just posted the same. I said before elsewhere I don't mind discussions, but I do mind useless oneliners from people who don't even play the game. Discussions can be fun too, you know!

I feel that I have done a fairly decent job in keeping the Flight flaming posts to a minimum here, while allowing some amount of critical comments about Flight's latest DLC and its apparent direction as a game/sim. Critical comments can lead to improvements in a game/sim. For instance, if no one was critical of Flight's initial over-sensitive joystick response, I doubt that it ever would have been fixed.

 

Forum [noun (plural forums): a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged: we hope these pages act as a forum for debate.]

 

A debate requires more than a single-sided viewpoint. This is suppose to be an AVSIM Flightsim forum, not a Flight Fan site.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Time for me to get out of here, and enjoy our Spring sunshine, by doing some kayaking on the lake. The water is still very cold, but lately the temperature here on this forum feels a lot chillier.

 

I wish you all the best and I do hope that you enjoy Flight (or move on to something that you can truly enjoy). Be nice to each other in my absence.

A debate requires more than a single-sided viewpoint. This is suppose to be an AVSIM Flightsim forum, not a Flight Fan site.

 

Why do we have to have debates? I'd prefer to see discussions myself.

 

Hook

Er... I fully agree with Don. If you had also quoted his next line, you would have seen he said already what I just said. Don said "Now the naysayers, those that hang around here that don't like Flight, don't run Flight, and only want to critique what it lacks for them, will love a statement like that and will gladly agree." and that's why my post was about. HiFlyer' just posted the same. I said before elsewhere I don't mind discussions, but I do mind useless oneliners from people who don't even play the game. Discussions can be fun too, you know!

 

Please, at least be sincere. Your words are very clear:

"There is no freedom of speech here, as some people think. This forum should be a fun place for Flight lovers and imho that fun should be protected and if that means that lots of negative posts will be removed without notice: AVSIM has my approval."

 

That's exactly the definition of "fan club" that Arwen cited several times recently. You obviously have the right to express this position, but please don't ask others to believe that you like free discussions. You know, not all of us reason as a 15 years old

 

A.

I hereby cast my vote for a Flight fan club.

 

Hook

Why do we have to have debates? I'd prefer to see discussions myself.

 

Hook

 

Debate is contention in discussion. You can't have debate-free discussion unless you agree 100% with each other.

Semantics. My criteria for a post has always been something like:

 

Is it fun, or cool?

 

POST IT!

 

Is in informative or (Maybe) interesting? (Even if only to you)

 

POST IT!

 

Is it positive and at least tangentially on subject?

 

POST IT!

 

Is it supportive to others with the same interest?

 

POST IT!

 

If its a debate, are you expressing your points politely and constructively?

 

POST IT!

 

Do you think it will be well received? Or if not, will you make your point, defend your position (politely) and then be prepared to move on to something else?

 

POST IT!

 

Pretty much all the rest requires second and even third thoughts, and if it requires all that, its probably a bad idea!

 

Yelling "Fire!" In a theater, or posting something you know will cause an absolutely useless round of argument, leading absolutely nowhere judging by the vast majority of proceeding attempts (unless it is very very important to you, and you are prepared to swallow the consequences) are all good reasons not to post.

 

I did not register for "Fight Club"

Please, at least be sincere. Your words are very clear:

"There is no freedom of speech here, as some people think. This forum should be a fun place for Flight lovers and imho that fun should be protected and if that means that lots of negative posts will be removed without notice: AVSIM has my approval."

 

That's exactly the definition of "fan club" that Arwen cited several times recently. You obviously have the right to express this position, but please don't ask others to believe that you like free discussions. You know, not all of us reason as a 15 years old

 

A.

 

I like free discussions but I don't like oneliners that have no use to anyone. I didn't say I want EVERY negative post should be removed: that would include quite a few of mine. But I won't mind at all if LOTS of useless negative posts were removed. I don't see where I am not sincere, really. I don't want to hide behind the excuse that English is not my native language, so... please explain again where I am not sincere and I'll try to explain myself better.

 

Although... come to think of it, I couldn't care less, really... Forget what I just said. I don't want to spoil my evening by discussing something that has nothing to do with Flight but which has only to do with what is and what is not allowed on this forum. What the **** am I doing here! What a waste of time! I could have been flying in MS Flight but spend all freakin' evening reading and 'discussing' crap. As I said I come here to talk about Flight so, I am out of there. Call me not sincere, call me a liar, call me weak, call me a gamer, call me a loser, call me a sucker, call me yellow, call me a simmer, call me a Flight-fan, call me a Flight-######, call me a whatever you want, but I am done with this crap.

 

From now on I will ignore posts I don't like, simple as that. Life is hard enough as it is already and I don't need some morons on a forum to spoil my mood. Why the hell should I defend ANYTHING here. I am in this hobby to have fun. Bye bye and thanks.

 

Well... that felt good, actually. :drinks:

.....

Although... come to think of it, I couldn't care less, really... Forget what I just said....

 

Bertrand Russel once said:"It is difficult to discuss with people that don't agree with their own ideas", so.... :Star:

 

A.