Hi All,I just got finished reading that long thread concerning FSGS. It disturbed me to no end.Quotes like this from Ryan REALLY upset me (not picking on you Ryan, just a perfect example of many posts with like themes in that thread): "in the event I'm given information about aspects of system setup, FS9.cfg tweaks or whatever that I didn't know which makes it worth the cost of their service, I'm not going to come here and tell everyone how to do it."In a one word simple reply: Bullocks!Any company that either directly or indirectly causes a restriction in the free flow of ideas including hints, tweaks and tips, of which we all have been sharing with each other for the past 30 years in the computer business, makes me want to scream. Literally.There *IS NOTHING PROPRIETARY* in tweaking a system in any way (setup, drivers, config files, services, etc)! If this company wants to run a consulting service that is based on selling absolutely FREE IDEAS, but packaged in an easy, hands on manner, fine with me. But be ABSOLUTELY ASSURED about this: all tweaks they provide are GUARANTEED freely available on the internet today - because just about everything under the sun when it comes to hardware and software is freely discussed on the internet today in forums just like this one by thousands upon thousands of people! FSGS seems to be selling a packaged, friendly, hands on collection of these freely available tips, BUT NOT PROPRIETARY INFORMATION!Anyone who feels any kind of restriction on freely sharing any tweaks provided in the session with FSGS after paying for said session is breaking the absolute core of what "community" and a free exchange of ideas this board and indeed the internet is all about!Just because a company comes along and wants to sell previously free if disparate content in a packaged, hands on manner, does NOT mean the community has to shut up about said content after they start up business!Some people here have known me for years as I've been a part of this community since its inception (and hopefully somewhat respected). Others may not know me at all since I haven't posted too often the past year and thus will have earned no respect from you. Regardless, I have spent many years both giving and receiving free advice in this community on everything under the sun: what hardware to buy, what drivers to use, what tweaks to make, what config files to change, what information is in those config files, etc, etc, etc. If such a free exchange of information is restricted because of this new company selling it, I'll be ticked off to no end.Nothing against FSGS here as I have absolutely no experience with them... This post is about reaction to FSGS in this community, not the company itself.Take care,Elrond

Elrond,I happen to agree with you. FSGS is charging for their time in providing advice how to tweak a *concrete* system. And there is nothing wrong with it. But the information itself is not proprietary.A good example would be if I went to a doctor who put me on a diet and I paid for the visit. But I can then turn around and share with my friends what kind of diet the doctor put me on. Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

I really don't get the problem. The FSGS guys seem to have no policy saying that you must keep the tweaks to yourself. You kind of are misleading with your quote from Ryan and the others: they were saying that because FSGS is a business, they don't want to hurt that business by sharing what FSGS did to there computers. (Thats what I gathered anyway) Gentlemen, there is nothing wrong with sharing the information, or saying you will keep it to yourself.

Hi Elrond,well said! I completely agree. Just an (irrelevant) side note: It's "bollocks", not "bullocks" ;). See here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BollocksCheers,Gosta.http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

Hi Fred,The problem is this: its crystal clear from reading that whole thread that people do indeed feel "restricted" from sharing any tips, tweaks, etc they get after they go through one of the "sessions". Company policy or no, thats clearly the result for some (if not all). And as you indirectly stated, that makes sense. As you said, "they don't want to hurt the business".Thats wrong, however, in so many ways. First and foremost, because the company DOESN'T have a publicly stated policy one way or the other. Second, because I GUARANTEE any information provided in the session has already been and continues to be given away freely elsewhere on the internet: much of it extremely likely from the very people who visit this forum. Etc, etc.Paying for someones time and energy is fine: restricting a whole community (that all of the content was derived from to begin with) in the process is not.Take care,Elrond

Hi Elrond.I absolutely agree with you... but, of course, I give everything away for free. :)I think FSGS probably has found that 2-5 tweaks will improve most systems to the point where their clients will agree to pay without bawking. I also think these tweaks are already in the pool of knowledge we have. And, I think FSGS is being a bit paraniod about loosing business.The system tweaks are already known. I am sure of that. Simmers either cannot or will not implement them on their own. So, they should pay for the service! That's the price for inadequacy, laziness, or ignorance. I'm trying to be blunt, not insulting. There are many aspects of operating systems, hardware and programming of which I am ignorant... and I have neither the time or inclination to learn everything about my computer system or FS9. In this regard, I'm inadequate, lazy, and ignorant. We all have our levels of time, effort and ability.So, if FSGS delivers the "bang for the buck", good for them and good for their customers.BUT...As far as copyright... MS owns FS9 and Windows. Computer components are owned by the end-user. The tweaks are already public knowledge.They have no copyright.They can certainly ask not to have identity of the 2-5 important tweaks made known... and if the end user agrees to that condition, the end user should honor it. In their favor, they do offer money back if the service does not meet the satisfaction of the end user.You are not going to land at SeaTac with smooth framerates of 60+ with all sliders to the right. That's 2-3 years away, and a hardware limitation. FSGS should be able to deliver 20+ with no stuttering, and sliders generally to the right. If you can't get that on your own, have a reasonably up-to-date hardware environment, and are already at the hair-pulling stage... then you might NEED to use some outside help to get your system straightened out.I agree with you, Elrond. Witholding knowledge is a shame, and charging for ignorance is not the way I'd like to make money. This is a hobby, and done for fun. We have a long history of sharing our knowledge and experiences. I feel bad that simmers feel the need to use this consultation at all. I do understand the frustration. The FS series will get MORE complicated in future versions... and tweaking it to the max will become even more obsessive ( and competitive ).Here's my #1 and #2 tweaks:1) Move the sliders to the left a bit.2) Turn off the FPS counter.Dick

Well, I think Ryan and everyone else who refuse to share the FSGS tweaks are doing the honourable and ethical thing. If they share the "secrets" they have paid for then they will be contributing to the demise of FSGS' business.Why should anyone be given for free the information that someone else has paid for? If they want this information then they should either search or ask in the forums or else pay for it. Alternatively, they could learn to tweak their systems like I did - it's not rocket science if you take the trouble to learn.David

I think the obvious course of action if one is `massively disturbed` by reading something is to go and find out about it, not perpetuate the myth and the vitriol. No sign of that here, is there?No-one who has not subjected their computers to FSGS examination have any right to criticise what this company does, or whether it is value for money. Seems like YET ANOTHER round of conjecture, anecdote and subliminal slagging, and I really don't understand why the forum moderators tolerate this kind of thing. IT TRULY goes against the spirit of the `community`.In other words, this thread, and the mock concerns, are yet another waste of simmers time and about as useful as rumours of the decline of the FS franchise. If you really want to slag the operation off, try it first, and PROVE to the rest of us that your genius at tweaking extends beyond merely wittering fruitlessly at others expertise. I suggest appointing an independent examiner not linked to either party but with a reputation in the community. Andrew Herd springs to mind. The you self-styled geniuses can prove beyond all doubt that you're not actually talking out of your rectums. Until then your just waiting your time, and ours.Allcott

Hi David,But what you state is exactly the problem: there ARE no "secrets". See? Even your confused by what they are selling.FSGS is selling nothing but this: time. From reports it seems to be an average of 4 hours of hand holding for 60 dollars, thus they value their time at $15 per hour. They are NOT selling secrets - simply their time.The honorable and ethical thing is for the free flow of good tips and ideas to remain exactly that: free. All, or at the very least the vast majority of the ideas and tweaks FSGS provides is "borrowed" from the community already... Its not NEW information, its pre-packaged existing information take from the community and the internet at large. The money charged is for the time walking you through implementing those tips.I hope you see the difference now. When it comes down to it, the honorable and ethical thing would be for FSGS to spell out exactly what they provide - BEFORE they provide it. It would avoid confusion such as yours and whats rampant in the previous thread right from the start.Take care,Elrond

Hi AllCott.No one here has yet said FSGS does not deliver what they claim. I'd be shocked if they don't!This discussion was centered on the ethics of charging for ignorance, and indicating that the cure for this ignorance should be kept secret.As far as genius, I'm nearly so, and Elrond is. Others can fend for themselves.And as far as wasting time or bandwith, thank you for your helpful observations. I look forward to your next contribution to the hobby.Dick

Hi Michael,Another good example would be H & R Block. You can do your taxes by yourself because the tax code is freely available to anyone. But you can also pay to have H & R Block walk you through doing your taxes. You're not paying for "secret" information on how to do your taxes, your paying for a convenience of not having to know the tax code inside and out.Just like computer tips, tweaks, setup, etc.I'm glad that we agree on something my friend :-).Take care,Elrond

LOL! Thanks Gosta... I always liked that word, so I'm glad I know how to spell it now. :-)Good to see ya,Elrond

Hello,Well I'm afraid I have to disagree. I have been flying Flight Simulator since the days of the Tandy 1000 computer, I still have the FS manual copyright by Bruce A. Artwick 1982,1984,1985, so I've been around for awhile. I do not consider myself to be an idiot in regards to computer systems, I build computers, as a matter of fact I am running a liquid cooling system as I type, I built it myself. I am a member of several FS forums, including AVSIM, Flightsim, Simvation, Simforums and so on.I paid to have this service done to my computer so I know what was done and I can tell everyone of you, what was done to my system is NOWHERE, let me say that again "NOWHERE" to be found on any of these forums in "ALL" of the flight simulator web sites I have visited.So, in a word your statement is: WRONGIf what was done to my system was already out there, I would have directed everyone to that site and saved them some cash. The truth is, this entire system setup done by FSGS is nowhere to be found in the FS community.What

"Alternatively, they could learn to tweak their systems like I did - it's not rocket science if you take the trouble to learn."I agree, David. Like you, I take care of my own system. Others prefer not to delve into such matters, and that's where FS-GS's service comes in. Kind of a one stop shopping for FS tweaks. :-) Having said that, if I were on the phone with a "consultant" and he told me I couldn't share his tweaks with other simmers, I'd thank him for his time and hang-up. And I would do so for the reasons stated in this thread... FS-Gs isn't doing anything that one can't learn to do themselves simply by studying.All of this stuff is in the public domain, it's just that some folks can't or don't want to do it themselves. That's OK... to each his own.Finally, I don't think the sharing of what FS-GS does with all simmers will cure all problems. Because each system is different. What works for one might FUBAR another. That's where FS-GS succeeds... they tweak each customer's system to their preferrence.Greg

Hey Dick,Exactly right. No one here is spewing any "vitriol" about FSGS in the least. This topic and conversation isn't even about FSGS: its about reaction to what they are confusingly selling the community.Good to see you still around, and indeed: you are a great, if not the perfect example of those who place utmost value in the free flow of ideas. Talk about honorable and ethical! :-)Take care,Elrond