FBW on the 777

[kevinh 409]

 

Car drive-by-wire steering systems are direct input systems.

Airbus FBW "Direct Law" is also a direct input system.

RC vehicles are direct input systems.

 

Also as stated earlier, PMDG could already override the FSX direct input system since the MD11. The 737 also uses this override for the CWS.

 

There is absolutely no reason to believe that PMDG will not implement flight envelope protections. However, most people will not notice these as the 777 flight envelope protection features are very streamlined compared to Airbus FBW types.

I was talking about flight control systems and not the non-normal back up controls. So cars and direct law don't really count.

 

PMDG wouldn't be the first to implement FBW in FSX, and as you say they've done it partially with the MD-11, so I'd be surprised if some of the 777 FBW control system wasn't simulated. As I said earlier the problem comes with envelope protection, because Boeing do this by increasing control forces, not modifying pilot inputs.

 

I don't know where you got the idea Boeing FBW is more "streamlined" than Airbus. Within the flight envelope there's little difference in the way the control laws work. Even the so called "hard" protections are applied smoothly in the Airbus. I've flown both A320 and 777, albeit only in a FFS, and they both handle beautifully. The A320 is very pleasant to fly manually in normal law, even when pushing the limits.

[davidz 26]

In my post, I stated that the 777 flight envelope protections are more streamlined that Airbus FBW types. Airbus FBW types (in normal law) will stop or reduce control authority - this is somewhat an unnatural feeling where the machine isn't doing what you are telling it to do.. On the other hand, the 777 either increases control force (stall protection) or applies opposite roll input to the control wheel (bank angle protection), which provides tactile response to the pilot, a more natural feeling where the machine tells to "hey stop doing this", but let's you do what you want.

[mikea76 184]

Not entirely true. In Europe (JAA) anyway as for example, Ryan Air have cadet programs for qualified fATPL/CPL Students. I believe they pay for the TR on the NG and you need to stay with them for a set number of years to pay it off, or if you leave you'd have to pay what's left up front.

 

I didn't mean to sound "my first job will either be boeing or airbus", I will fly whatever the Airline that hires me offer me to fly! Could be a Dash-8, could be an A320, could be a B737, could be a B757 or even a King Air!

 

However in the States I know you have to build yourself up more. I'm only doing my PPL here in California, the rest will be at CAE OAA back in the UK to do JAA fATPL/CPL as I wouldn't like to commercial here in the states personally.

 

I see what you mean now. good luck

[EGLL77W 1,508]

I see what you mean now. good luck

 

:) thank you, and to you!

[Noble. 142]

The best cadet-scheme, as far as I know, that was around up until a year or two ago was the Etihad scheme. I was going to apply simultaneously with a few choice Universities but it didn't run that year.

[Airbus Commander 563]

The best cadet-scheme, as far as I know, that was around up until a year or two ago was the Etihad scheme. I was going to apply simultaneously with a few choice Universities but it didn't run that year.

We run one where we pay for everything bar the first €25,000, which is very good by industry standards. You're 5 year bonded, but being honest, who'd want to leave? We only take on 20 cadets though....

 

Lufthansa also do one, but you need fluent German for that... :germany-flag:

 

Ró.

[Noble. 142]

We run one where we pay for everything bar the first €25,000, which is very good by industry standards. You're 5 year bonded, but being honest, who'd want to leave? We only take on 20 cadets though....

 

Lufthansa also do one, but you need fluent German for that... :germany-flag:

 

Ró.

 

Does sound quite good - I'll be looking more into it when I finish Uni, who knows what'll change in the next 3 or so years.

[serviceceiling 135]

 

We run one where we pay for everything bar the first €25,000, which is very good by industry standards. You're 5 year bonded, but being honest, who'd want to leave? We only take on 20 cadets though....

 

Lufthansa also do one, but you need fluent German for that... :germany-flag:

 

Ró.

 

Yes, Lufthansa has a very good program. That's where I'm headed after I finish school. ;-)

[kevinh 409]

In my post, I stated that the 777 flight envelope protections are more streamlined that Airbus FBW types. Airbus FBW types (in normal law) will stop or reduce control authority - this is somewhat an unnatural feeling where the machine isn't doing what you are telling it to do.. On the other hand, the 777 either increases control force (stall protection) or applies opposite roll input to the control wheel (bank angle protection), which provides tactile response to the pilot, a more natural feeling where the machine tells to "hey stop doing this", but let's you do what you want.

I can assure you it doesn't feel unnatural in the Airbus. Protections don't come in suddenly, they simply back off the pilot input as the limit is approached. If you pull the sidestick fully back, you are commanding full nose up and the system gives you exactly that. It feels completely natural. With attitude and speed protections the aircraft is allowed to naturally overshoot the limit before returning to it. It's not like hitting a wall.

 

In a non FBW aircraft control authority naturally decreases as the aircraft approaches a stall, to the point where no matter how much you pull the stick back attitude will not increase any more and may well decrease when stall occurs. No one says this is unnatural or alarming.

 

But member that most airline pilots never get anywhere near the edges of the envelope anyway, FBW or not.

[Airbus Commander 563]

Does sound quite good - I'll be looking more into it when I finish Uni, who knows what'll change in the next 3 or so years.

 

Urmmm, good luck with that. I don't mean to slam your dreams of being a pilot at EIN, but unless you're Irish, or possibly British, your chances of getting into our cadetship are next to none, sorry. Never say never though. Good luck with getting your ATPL anyway though, no matter what the route you take.... I think Flybe offer a part sponsorship, but it's only about 8k towards your flying costs, eitherway, every little helps, so you may as well look into that one as well...

 

Yes, Lufthansa has a very good program. That's where I'm headed after I finish school. ;-)

 

Good luck with that. Always admired Lufthansa...

 

I can assure you it doesn't feel unnatural in the Airbus. Protections don't come in suddenly, they simply back off the pilot input as the limit is approached. If you pull the sidestick fully back, you are commanding full nose up and the system gives you exactly that. It feels completely natural. With attitude and speed protections the aircraft is allowed to naturally overshoot the limit before returning to it. It's not like hitting a wall.

 

In a non FBW aircraft control authority naturally decreases as the aircraft approaches a stall, to the point where no matter how much you pull the stick back attitude will not increase any more and may well decrease when stall occurs. No one says this is unnatural or alarming.

 

But member that most airline pilots never get anywhere near the edges of the envelope anyway, FBW or not.

 

You've hit the nail on the head there, to me there's nothing unnatural about the fly-by-wire protections in Airbus aircraft, you just know they're there, and how they work. Understanding them is the key to best utilising them for what they were designed for....

 

Rónán O Cadhain.

[serviceceiling 135]

Thank you Sir, I'll need that! :D

[Noble. 142]

Urmmm, good luck with that. I don't mean to slam your dreams of being a pilot at EIN, but unless you're Irish, or possibly British, your chances of getting into our cadetship are next to none, sorry. Never say never though. Good luck with getting your ATPL anyway though, no matter what the route you take.... I think Flybe offer a part sponsorship, but it's only about 8k towards your flying costs, eitherway, every little helps, so you may as well look into that one as well...

 

 

 

Good luck with that. Always admired Lufthansa...

 

 

 

You've hit the nail on the head there, to me there's nothing unnatural about the fly-by-wire protections in Airbus aircraft, you just know they're there, and how they work. Understanding them is the key to best utilising them for what they were designed for....

 

Rónán O Cadhain.

 

Of course, although I am British, I gave up "dreams" of being a pilot a long time ago. It's mostly why I'm now at University and not doing an ATPL somewhere.

[Joseph_Van 7]

- i love this kind of thread!!!

 

PMDG have already stated that the FBW will not be implemented due to an FSX limitation. Also the flight dynamics will be the ones that come with FSX default 737.

 

 

So barrel roles will be posibile

 

[Houghton11 12]

So barrel roles will be posibile

 

All Boeing's can do barrell-rolls....it's in their genes

[nrcrate 40]

All Boeing's can do barrell-rolls....it's in their genes

It's true: