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aggressorblue

Sandy/Ivy/i5/i7 build, thoughts?

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So I'm starting to spec my next rig upgrade; gutting the AMD CPU and MOBO and replacing it with an Intel based solution. The Phenom II X4 955 @3.8 I'm on is an excellent general gaming work-horse, but it's no match for FSX with PMDG/VRS planes and high-end city and airport scenery with lot's of AI flying around. I'm looking to build a rig that can hold a solid 15 or more FPS in the following scenario:

 

-Flying the PMDG 737 NGX or VRS SuperBug

-All FSX sliders maxed

-GEX/REX environment and weather

-MyTraffic X Pro installed and maxed out. Willing to concede on Ground traffic, but would still like some enabled (maybe 50% sliders?)

-Running at 5760x1200

-Scenery is Aerosoft Manhattan X/FSDT's JFK

-EZCA with Track IR enabled

 

I figure if a rig can handle that, it can handle anything else FSX throws at it :D

 

Secondary software considerations:

-XPX (needs a year or so to mature, and grow an aftermarket base)

-DCS World (also in a growth state as the result of the recent release of a controlled SDK)

-Take On Helicopters

-Arma III

 

 

 

What I have as current support hardware:

- 8 (2x4) gigs of ddr3 1600 (currently clocked down to 13' as per the AMD CPU limitations) Complete with passive heat sinks

-AMD 6950 2GB GPU (will explore Nvidia 6 series card next year)

-Multiple HDD's (SSD's will be an upgrade come fall)

-800 Watt Thermaltake PSU

-Coolermaster Hyper 212 Air cooler

-Coolermaster HAF 932 Full-tower case (BIG case with BIG fans! :) )

-3X 1920x1080 monitors

-Win 7 64 Bit pro.

 

I have decided that a yet-to-be-determined Z77 Mobo is the way to go. My buddy Tom will be helping me pick one out in my price range :) :http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/z77-express-ivy-bridge-benchmark,3254.html

 

 

So at this point I'm open to Ivy, but leaning toward Sandy as it's simpler to OC, yes? I don't care at all about the on board graphics options, and it's my understanding that's Ivy's primary advantage over Sandy. Open to input here.

 

Also in play is i5 versus i7. I figure at this point, my budget would allow for an i5 on Liquid cooling, or an i7 on Air. I'm leaning toward the i5 here, as the higher clock allowance. SO it looks like:

 

i5 2500k @$220 on Newegg, or i5 3570k for $215 (price difference is negligible, as Newegg is offering coupons ) and a decent H20 Cooler such as this Anatec:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209049. At first I'll try an OC on air using the 212, but I'm guessing I'll need H20 to get past the 4.ghz barrier?

 

or the i7 2600k@$290 or i7 3770k for $340 (A pretty big price gap, and enough to make the Sandy look much more attractive), and use the Hyper 212.

 

Thoughts?

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I recommend a Z77 motherboard with an i7 3770K. The Ivy Bridge runs a little bit hotter, but needs less voltage to overclock. Also it can match Sandy Bridge at lower clockspeeds. For example, an i7 3770K 4.5 GHz will match an i7 2700K 4.7 GHz.

 

Don't let people tell you that the i7 is not faster than the i5. Hyperthreading of the i7 will not be beneficial in FSX, however, some other games do support and utilize it. Most importantly, according to NickN's benchmarks FSX does take advantage of the larger cache of an i7 CPU.

 

With your monster resolution, max sliders, add-on scenery, PMDG 737NGX and lots of AI traffic, there is currently no PC on the market that's gonna run that fine. Personally I want a minimum of 25 FPS. To achieve that I always have my water slider set to HIGH 2X, as MAX 2X lowers FPS massively even when you're not around water. Light bloom is also a big FPS killer. But AI traffic is even worse. Car traffic doesn't hurt FPS too much, however boat traffic does (for me). Airline traffic does hurt FPS quite a lot. I think with a Z77, i7 3770K, GTX 670 (or better), you can achieve a minimum of around 25 FPS with all sliders max except water, running around 25-50% AI traffic.


Arjen Vandervelde

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I recommend a Z77 motherboard with an i7 3770K. The Ivy Bridge runs a little bit hotter, but needs less voltage to overclock. Also it can match Sandy Bridge at lower clockspeeds. For example, an i7 3770K 4.5 GHz will match an i7 2700K 4.7 GHz.

 

Don't let people tell you that the i7 is not faster than the i5. Hyperthreading of the i7 will not be beneficial in FSX, however, some other games do support and utilize it. Most importantly, according to NickN's benchmarks FSX does take advantage of the larger cache of an i7 CPU.

 

With your monster resolution, max sliders, add-on scenery, PMDG 737NGX and lots of AI traffic, there is currently no PC on the market that's gonna run that fine. Personally I want a minimum of 25 FPS. To achieve that I always have my water slider set to HIGH 2X, as MAX 2X lowers FPS massively even when you're not around water. Light bloom is also a big FPS killer. But AI traffic is even worse. Car traffic doesn't hurt FPS too much, however boat traffic does (for me). Airline traffic does hurt FPS quite a lot. I think with a Z77, i7 3770K, GTX 670 (or better), you can achieve a minimum of around 25 FPS with all sliders max except water, running around 25-50% AI traffic.

 

What do you think about the Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz? Big Difference for FSX and lets say other games like BTF 3?

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Most importantly, according to NickN's benchmarks FSX does take advantage of the larger cache of an i7 CPU

 

where are those benchmarks?

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sorry to butt in here, - although using kostas tweaks about the ht off and setting affinity mask to 14, - if the i7 2700k has 6 cores, andfsx doesnt use multi threading, can the other cores not be dedicated to be used for other things like active sky and the likes?

Sorry if im missing the point, this "tech talk" is only understandable, - if one simply understands it.

My new rig, which i wont be building till xmas now due to the dauhters b/day and xmas, will (at this moment in time) will consist of an i7 2700k and z77 extreme 4, but is subject to change come the new year.

regards and apologies for chipping in here.


Paul Westcott

 

pmdg_trijet.jpg

flight1.jpg

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What do you think about the Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz? Big Difference for FSX and lets say other games like BTF 3?

 

I told you already. It's a good CPU. In FSX you should see a small performance difference of maybe 3 FPS less compared to the i7 3770K. BF3 does use hyperthreading, and there will definately be a difference although not that big. However, BF3 is not as much of a recourse hog compared to FSX so even with an i5 3570K it will run great. Again, I recommend i7 3770K + Z77 motherboard. The hyperthreading of the i7 might also just give you more headroom for any possible future simulator platforms, that maybe will utilize hyperthreading.

 

where are those benchmarks?

where are those benchmarks?

 

It was a link somebody sent to me a few months ago, I can't find it right now. Basically according to his testing there was a 5-10% FPS difference in favour of the i7. Also I can remember Srdan and another guy doing a test about GTX 580 vs GTX 680. The GTX 580 system won by maybe 10% more FPS, even though the GTX 680 performs just as fast. Interestingly, Srdan has an i7 2600K and that other guy had an i5 2500K, both they were running at the same clockspeed. Still the i7 did better by 4 FPS. Ofcourse there could also be another cause for that performance difference, but 4 FPS is quite a lot with two nearly identical systems with identical FSX.CFG's.


Arjen Vandervelde

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Don't really know about FSX cause it's way more CPU reliable, but if you wanna play on FSX, ARMA III and such, across 3 monitors you'll need a GTX 690 at least to run them at high quality settings, maybe even 3 680s. Forget about running 3 1920x1080 monitors with a 6950 with high quality settings, so don't even think about buying it, it's too little for 5760x1200.

 

I don't think you need such an extreme processor, i7 2600k or 3770k should do... but if you feel like spending more money then get 3960x.

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Don't really know about FSX cause it's way more CPU reliable, but if you wanna play on FSX, ARMA III and such, across 3 monitors you'll need a GTX 690 at least to run them at high quality settings, maybe even 3 680s. Forget about running 3 1920x1080 monitors with a 6950 with high quality settings, so don't even think about buying it, it's too little for 5760x1200.

 

I don't think you need such an extreme processor, i7 2600k or 3770k should do... but if you feel like spending more money then get 3960x.

 

There was about a 3 FPS increase in FSX when I upgraded from a 5770 to the 6950 (I already own it...). The 6950 is more than enough for FSX, as FSX cares little about your GPU. As further proof, lowering the resolution with all hardware and settings staying the same, I see zero change in FPS. Further proof still, GPU-Z shows the card isn't even being fully taxed by either it's CPU or RAM, so It has overhead to spare in FSX. Arama III and XPX will be a different story,but it holds it's own in Arma II, ToH, and DCS. I'll be switching to a nVidia card because their drivers appear to play nicer with FSX and XPX, offering more stability. My initial loyalty to AMD was due to their support for multi-monitor setups, which nVidia has stepped up to the plate on.

 

 

I recommend a Z77 motherboard with an i7 3770K. The Ivy Bridge runs a little bit hotter, but needs less voltage to overclock. Also it can match Sandy Bridge at lower clockspeeds. For example, an i7 3770K 4.5 GHz will match an i7 2700K 4.7 GHz.

 

Don't let people tell you that the i7 is not faster than the i5. Hyperthreading of the i7 will not be beneficial in FSX, however, some other games do support and utilize it. Most importantly, according to NickN's benchmarks FSX does take advantage of the larger cache of an i7 CPU.

 

With your monster resolution, max sliders, add-on scenery, PMDG 737NGX and lots of AI traffic, there is currently no PC on the market that's gonna run that fine. Personally I want a minimum of 25 FPS. To achieve that I always have my water slider set to HIGH 2X, as MAX 2X lowers FPS massively even when you're not around water. Light bloom is also a big FPS killer. But AI traffic is even worse. Car traffic doesn't hurt FPS too much, however boat traffic does (for me). Airline traffic does hurt FPS quite a lot. I think with a Z77, i7 3770K, GTX 670 (or better), you can achieve a minimum of around 25 FPS with all sliders max except water, running around 25-50% AI traffic.

 

I believe the issue with water is that it's everywhere; FSX loads water 'underneath' all other terrain. I don't use light bloom anyway, but I do use the ENB mod. I'd like to run 50% traffic with MyTraffix X running. My current settings are at all scenery max except autogen and complexity (both are set to 'Dense'), and traffic set to 0 ground traffic, with ~45% Air traffic. I'll play with my water settings (1x High IIRC) and see if that helps.

 

If I can't get a 50% or better FPS increase and be able to crank up Auto-gen then I'm not sure an upgrade is worth the cash at this point. I think my next move is to run my PC through the FSMark11 benchmark, as when I took a peek yesterday I didn't see a Phenom II X4 listed. I think that will help me better understand the cost/benefit to an upgrade.

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I was thinking about this topic yesterday. What about if you crank up AI settings and everything else to 100% using a PMDG jet and a top of the line, complex airport? I was thinking that if I could keep at least 15 FPS, I would be okay. Is there a computer set-up that can run at least 15FPS in all scenerios, including heavy weather?

 

Thanks, RH

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I was thinking about this topic yesterday. What about if you crank up AI settings and everything else to 100% using a PMDG jet and a top of the line, complex airport? I was thinking that if I could keep at least 15 FPS, I would be okay. Is there a computer set-up that can run at least 15FPS in all scenerios, including heavy weather?

 

Thanks, RH

 

I haven't completely finished tweaking my rig yet, but I'd be willing to bet it can.

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I7 3770k (de-lidded and on water) @ close to 5GHz + 2800MHz RAM. In other words, what folks like westman, hljames, and myself have.

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The 2800 MHZ ram out of stock at New Egg, any substitutes? Is the i7 3820 worth getting having 10mb cache? I have a k2600, should I upgrade? Also a P8 Z77 WS MB. My OC is 4.8, Word Not Allowed tweek, MSI 580GT Nvidia, but cannot run sliders at full at Darrington. All advice welcomed, thank you.

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The 2800 MHZ ram out of stock at New Egg, any substitutes?

 

Don't bother. SB can run max 2133MHz in most cases

 

Is the i7 3820 worth getting having 10mb cache?

 

No, just like the 2500k vs 2600-2700K & 3570K vs 3770K

 

I have a k2600, should I upgrade? Also a P8 Z77 WS MB. My OC is 4.8, Word Not Allowed tweek, MSI 580

 

then go fly already, there's nothing to upgrade there that will provide a significant perf boost

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