Perfectly happy to because you were feeling leery about and refrained from debating the merits of USAF vs USN with me back then.

 

At least you have that right. I am not qualified to discuss the merits of USAF vs USN with anyone - and, frankly, I thought that your saying, in effect, that the Navy had it right while the Air Force was wrong, was preposterous (Thank you, Kevin, for letting the world know that the USAF doesn't know how to fly !). Anyway, if you feel qualified, you can debate as long as you want - but not with me, sorry.

 

Either way, whether or not I, the US Navy, and Barry Schiff are correct about the primary purpose of pitch control, you will have to admit you are quite the hypocrite for criticising VH_JLC the way you did when you say the same kind of things yourself.

 

I wish you would think twice before using the word hypocrite.

 

In that thread, you gave us lenghty technical explanations (lectures?), claimed to be an airliner pilot, (which I have a hard time believing but hey, it's only me) and failed to answer when, at the end of the thread, a real airliner pilot basically confirmed what I had claimed all along. I thought that was enough of an embarrassment for you so that we should drop the subject but if you want to continue the debate forever with someone else, that's fine with me. Only just don't hijack this thread.

 

So, here is the link, and good luck to you :

 

http://forum.avsim.n...ght-experience/

 

But I am afraid I am going to pass again.

 

Bruno

At least you have that right. I am not qualified to discuss the merits of USAF vs USN with anyone - and, frankly, I thought that your saying, in effect, that the Navy had it right while the Air Force was wrong, was preposterous (Thank you, Kevin, for letting the world know that the USAF doesn't know how to fly !). Anyway, if you feel qualified, you can debate as long as you want - but not with me, sorry.

 

 

 

I wish you would think twice before using the word hypocrite.

 

In that thread, you gave us lenghty technical explanations (lectures?), claimed to be an airliner pilot, (which I have a hard time believing but hey, it's only me) and failed to answer when, at the end of the thread, a real airliner pilot basically confirmed what I had claimed all along. I thought that was enough of an embarrassment for you so that we should drop the subject but if you want to continue the debate forever with someone else, that's fine with me. Only just don't hijack this thread.

 

So, here is the link, and good luck to you :

 

http://forum.avsim.n...ght-experience/

 

But I am afraid I am going to pass again.

 

Bruno

 

Well then, I suppose I'll get the last word, thank you fencer.

 

The argument is over one technique of teaching a student pilot over another. And yes, the Navy actually has this correct over the Air Force. The Air Force method is to teach flying as a rote method. The Navy method is to teach an understanding of flying. That is the basic difference between the two. The difference comes in the basic culture of the two services, whereas the Air Force's rule book outlines what they can do while the Navy's rule book outlines what they cannot do. (BTW fencer, if you think it is preposterous that the US Navy should know any better than the USAF, do remember that the US Navy has been flying planes a lot longer than the USAF, which only came into existence after WWII. If you want to compare the Navy with the USAF's predecessor USAAF, the difference between the first plane each got is 1 year.)

 

Your friend Rho came into the thread and said he uses pitch for speed in climb and descents and pitch for altitude for level cruise. That is fine. There is nothing there that disagrees with what I said. That is how all pilots should use their instruments. The basic gauge that tells you how correctly you are doing it is airspeed in climb or descent and altimeter in level flight. What you use to tell you how well you are performing your task does not change what the actual control surface does for the aircraft. Even though your purpose may be to hold level flight, when you pull back on the stick, you will also get a decrease in airspeed, along with an increase in altitude. The aircraft does not know what your purpose of the movement of the control stick is for. Therefore, the elevators cannot change its primary purpose of controlling speed to controlling altitude from one phase of flight to another. The elevator is a non-thinking object and does not know what you are trying to do. It just moves in reaction to your actions. And using it to control altitude is but a sympathetic effect of its control of speed at all times, even in cruise flight. And in the approach phase of an airliner type aircraft, there are enough high lift devices that the plane is still flying frontside of the powercurve, so that the plane will react as if in cruise flight, allowing the pilot to control his descent rate with pitch adjustments. In a single engine cessna without all the flaps and slats, when your task is to follow a defined vertical path such as the glideslope, it is much easier to be on the frontside of the powercurve and let pitch inputs for altitude, therefore they are flown at cruise speeds on instrument approaches.

 

That whole "claim to be an airline pilot" thing you keep saying here kind of has a personal bite to it. It is almost as if you wanted to insinuate the person you are arguing with is a some kind of fraud by using that word "claim." I think one of the mods kind of warned against that. So let's just keep whatever one may think one does or "claims" to do out of these kind of discussions, ok, fencer? Let's just keep it to a debate based on facts, explanations, reasoning, logic, sources, and experiences.

 

Again fencer, thanks for letting me have the last word.

:mellow: Seriously guys? I think I see two children who need a time out in the bold corner.... :huh:

This is totally off the topic of whether or not Qantas can continue on with its current business model or must change to meet the demands of the consumer.

 

Regards,

Ró.

That whole "claim to be an airline pilot" thing you keep saying here kind of has a personal bite to it. It is almost as if you wanted to insinuate the person you are arguing with is a some kind of fraud by using that word "claim."

 

Again fencer, thanks for letting me have the last word.

 

Kevin,

When you write in a thread :

 

"It works just the same in the airliner I fly. It doesn't just apply to Cessnas and light planes." (post #18 in http://forum.avsim.n...ght-experience/ - see link above)

 

You should take responsibility for it. Period.

 

Now since you seem to have decided to hijack this thread to tell us (again !) your ideas about how the USAF, the Navy and the world Airlines should fly, I am going to sign off so that you can finally have the last word and be happy.

 

Bruno

Kevin,

When you write in a thread :

 

"It works just the same in the airliner I fly. It doesn't just apply to Cessnas and light planes." (post #18 in http://forum.avsim.n...ght-experience/ - see link above)

 

You should take responsibility for it. Period.

 

Now since you seem to have decided to hijack this thread to tell us (again !) your ideas about how the USAF, the Navy and the world Airlines should fly, I am going to sign off so that you can finally have the last word and be happy.

 

Bruno

 

That wasn't a claim. It was merely a statement of fact. By saying something is a "claim" implies that it could be a lie. Sort of like if someone says "Fencer claims to have his own business." Which would imply that somehow the opposite is what someone really thinks, such as, Fencer is just a milquetoast working for his father in law.

 

Anyways, Fencer, the pilots certified by the FAA are a matter of public record. https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/ You can look them up.

That wasn't a claim. It was merely a statement of fact. By saying something is a "claim" implies that it could be a lie. Sort of like if someone says "Fencer claims to have his own business." Which would imply that somehow the opposite is what someone really thinks, such as, Fencer is just a milquetoast working for his father in law.

 

Anyways, Fencer, the pilots certified by the FAA are a matter of public record. https://amsrvs.regis.../airmeninquiry/ You can look them up.

 

Such a long explanation....Why not answer clearly?

 

Since you wrote : "It works just the same in the airliner I fly"

 

my question is : Which airliner do you fly? Which airline?

 

Bruno

 

PS : Milquetoast eh? You think you're going to be able to remain calm and polite?

Yee know that there's a thing called Private Messaging (PM) here right? :Whistle:

Such a long explanation....Why not answer clearly?

 

Since you wrote : "It works just the same in the airliner I fly"

 

my question is : Which airliner do you fly? Which airline?

 

Bruno

 

PS : Milquetoast eh? You think you're going to be able to remain calm and polite?

 

Welcome back from your "sign off." Why do you care what airliner, what airline? Who cares? If we are going to debate the merits of Pitch is for Speed versus Pitch is for Altitude, please say something here with regards to that topic and quit it with all your little ad hominems. I gave you all you need to know and then some in that FAA airmen inquiry link.

Yee know that there's a thing called Private Messaging (PM) here right? :Whistle:

 

Yes Rónán, thank you.

 

But you see, I have been accused in a public forum of beeing an hypocrite by someone who wrote publicly that he is an airliner pilot and seems to have a difficult time to prove it.

 

So I am asking that person to take responsibility for his writing and to answer publicly, which he seems to have a hard time doing...

 

Best regards,

 

Bruno

 

Welcome back from your "sign off." Why do you care what airliner, what airline? Who cares? If we are going to debate the merits of Pitch is for Speed versus Pitch is for Altitude, please say something here with regards to that topic and quit it with all your little ad hominems. I gave you all you need to know and then some in that FAA airmen inquiry link.

 

I think you answered my question.... indirectly, but you did.

 

Thank you.

 

Bruno

Yes Rónán, thank you.

 

But you see, I have been accused in a public forum of beeing an hypocrite by someone who wrote publicly that he is an airliner pilot and seems to have a difficult time to prove it.

 

So I am asking that person to take responsibility for his writing and to answer publicly, which he seems to have a hard time doing...

 

Best regards,

 

Bruno

 

 

 

I think you answered my question.... indirectly.

 

Bruno

 

All you have to do is look it up in the database. You've got my name, Kevin Au. You can even send me a Christmas card with the information you get there. I don't speak here as a representative of whoever I may or may not work for, so I leave their name out of these forums. If we can resepect each other enough for what we say we are, and can debate on the merits of reasoning, logic, facts, ideas, common sense and good manners, then I really don't think we need to involve employers here. There is no need for anybody to "prove" they are anything by listing employment, ratings, etc., since anybody who is posing can easily be smelled out by the things that they say.

 

Calling you a hypocrite had nothing to do with airliners or pitch control. It had to do with me noticing you calling out somebody for behavior which you yourself are guilty of.

Anyways, Fencer, the pilots certified by the FAA are a matter of public record. https://amsrvs.regis.../airmeninquiry/ You can look them up.

 

Only if you have their full details.

 

 

Only if you have their full details.

 

 

 

No mgh, you are not paying attention. That is for you, mgh, to enter full details about yourself first, so that they know, and possibly, I, can find out who has been looking me up. Once you've entered all your own information, it takes you to the page where all you need is at least part of a name to look up. Notice in green it tells you to enter information about Yourself (The Requestor).

 

I expect a Christmas card from you now as well, mgh.

ooops!

Yup, looks like Kevin is a valid Pilot all right...

Yup, looks like Kevin is a valid Pilot all right...

 

That's not the point. Kevin claims to fly airliners and, when asked about details, declines to mention :

 

- for which airline (which is acceptable)

- which aircraft type (much harder to explain, but I am sure our Kevin has also a good excuse for that)

 

Bruno