Hi,

 

I've been flying for a while with the PMDG NGX and I really love it, however I've got a question related to the ATC and approach charts.

 

For example, I'm flying from EDDK (Cologne-Bonn Airport) to EHAM (Schiphol Amsterdam) and as I am approaching from the southeast I am flying via RKN to ARTIP (as you can see on the below attached EHAM01 file. It then says that ARTIP is the clearance limit and for that I need to have a runway designation from the FSX ATC. However, when I'm at ARTIP entering the holding pattern, I still can't select the airport from the ATC and therefor cannot ask for landing clearance and that is necessary to get a landing clearance.

 

So yesterday I did this flight and after two circles at ARTIP I tuned the ATIS to get the active runways, and sort of all runways were active, ILS on 6, 18L, 18C, 18R, 36L, 36C, 36R and visual on others. So I chose one of those, 18R and when I came closer I tuned in to the Airport tower and they cleared me for landing 06, with options to change to 36L, 36C or 36R. So I was at the complete wrong direction for landing.

 

Now I want to know how I can prevent this from happening in the future. I mean, I would expect the clearance to be available from ARTIP so that I can use the charts (like in the EHAM02 file) to fly the right approach and descent for the particular runway.

 

Hope anyone could give me some tips

 

Hans

Hi Hans,

 

EHAM is a difficult airport for FSX as it has so many runways in different directions. And if you use the default AFCAD it will also assign you to runways that are never used for take offs or landings. Depending on the present wind at EHAM I use different AFCADs tweaked for different winds so the pattern is close to realtiy.

 

Next time take some additional issues into account:

- the wind: ATC determines runway use based on the local wind. On such a short flight, prepare yourself for EHAM and look at the local weather report for it. By then you can already choose the right approach and runway

- FS will always lead you to the closest available runway, in this case 06 was the one when coming in from ARTIP. Had you flown to SPY it would very likely have given you 18R or 18c.

 

It has nothing to do with the NGX, but everything with the local situation.

 

 

Menno

Easy solution: fly online! Real people, real procedures. And the entry is way easier than you would think. I can only talk for Vatsim (IVAO is certainly great as well), but the people here are very, very friendly, helpful and you get all the help you need - and everything for free!

 

The Dutch VACC has a fly-in on Friday, check it out: http://www.dutchvacc.nl/

Flying online you won't have any of the above listed problems. You get up-to-date charts (yours are very old), ATIS, clear instructions what STAR/Approach to choose, sequencing, landing clearances and much, much more!

Looking forward to welcoming you onboard !

Because the ATC in FSX is very basic, and not in any way designed to work in conjunction with published STAR approach and arrival runway charts, I tend to avoid using it. Sure, Microsoft could have put more effort into it's design to make it more realistic, but in some ways, I can understand why they did not. It would have been cost and time prohibitive for MS to code the ATC to use real world navaids, like those seen in the EHAM charts, into the script in FSX. And sometimes those navaids change, with new ones added or old ones taken out, so then it becomes a cat and mouse game of keeping up with all these changes. The Flight Management Computers used in addon aircraft can handle these changes and are designed to work with these intricate details, as provided by updates by Navigraph for example. But not so, for the default ATC. I don't own the program, but there is something called "Radar Contact" that is supposed to be more realistic and works with SIDS/STARS used in the real world, but I can't speak for its authenticity for lack of experience.

 

I have flown to EHAM plenty of times in FSX, and like all my airports, I find out what the arrival weather is ahead of time and plan on using an exact or likely runway before I even take off. I also use a custom AFCAD designed specifically for EHAM that uses the correct landing runways and accounts for wind changes. It's a little complex, because EHAM has a complex arrangement, but it works for me. In case you are curious about what runway is being used at EHAM in real life, check out http://www.lvnl.nl/nl/airtraffic

This site allows you to see what runways to use for takeoff and landing operations in real time, and you can even look up past dates/times for historical information. I often used this site to find out which of my custom EHAM afcads to load in the sim for my sessions.

yes this site http://www.lvnl.nl/nl/airtraffic is the best for your choice.

 

Here some track info for the different runways

18r > from artip to SPY (3000ft) after spy present heading then left 210 to establish

from river hdg 020 then join track 090 inbound SPY and establish with heading 150

from sugol dct SPY and then same heading to estabilish

for 18 c almost same just different turning points

 

06 > from river dct CH

from sugol heading 135 and then hdg 100 to est

from artip hdg 240 then turn for runway or track 251 in SPL and after spl 240 after short turn for 06

 

27 > from river track 042 inbound spl after 5 nm after spl right 090 then track 180 pam and then final turn right 240

from sugol track 112 inbound spl 5 nm before spl hdg 090 then track 180 pam and then final turn right 240

from artip dct WP

 

Most used runways :-) And yeah further its a question of trial and error.

Flying online on IVAO or Vatsim really makes it more enjoyable.

 

Enjoy your lfights,

Thanks all for the extended replies.

I'm going to look into the virtual airline thing.

 

Also I know about the active runway use website from LVNL, but that does often not reflect in what's happening in FSX. Anyway, I know the wind-direction affects the runways in use, but I simply got all runways as active, so I couldn't know which ones would be designated to me.

 

Thanks for the input, and will take this into account the next time I hop on my KLM 737.

Hans, I was admiring your photos on your Flickr page. Can you tell me which runway you took the pictures of the landing aircraft at? I'm guessing 18R, which happens to be the runway I use the most for EHAM arrivals in FSX.

A.J. Thanks first of all The runway at Schiphol I mostly are is indeed 18R/36L, which is also known as the polderbaan. This is not only your most used runway, but in fact it is for Schiphol in the real world as well (because the routes don't directly fly over towns and cities). It's definitely one of the best places for planespotting at Schiphol, because the police and Schiphol are making it very hard to do some planespotting near other runways.

 

 

I've had a try yesterday with the approach to EHAM and this time instead of entering the holding pattern at ARTIP I just continued flying towards runway 06. It then (by luck) designated me to runway 06 as well, but it's still not the right way of lfying, I feel.

 

Now I'm looking into the virtual airline thing, but I guess I should continue the questions about that on the dutchvacc website instead of here.

Hi Hans,

 

Looking forward to seeing you on the Dutch VACC site

 

Like Xander has replied, the vectors given by ATC to get you from the IAF to the runway are roughly like that. Depending on wind, sequencing, etc. it may vary.

 

I also saw you had a chart of a night transition, that can also be used but don't expect the standard FSX ATC to comply with it. You can also fly the full procedure like you would do in real life with lost communication. In that case fly from the IAF to SPL VOR on FL70. After that follow the ILS procedure turn to final approach.

 

A great site, official, with free, uptodate charts can be found at http://www.ais-netherlands.nl, here you can fin all the charts related to Schiphol as well as other Dutch airports.

OP you need to make a flight plan (IFR) ingame and include departure + arrival airports. At about 50 or so miles (yeah, a bit late if flying high) you'll get info on which runway to land plus possibility to change approach or/and runway.