Hi MD-11 Pilots

 

I'm finding on some of my landings (usually the bad floaty ones), that instead of the ground spoilers deploying I suddenly get the callout "No Spoilers".

 

Now I definitely am arming them on approach, every time. I have my MCE F/O arm them and also check them in a checklist.

 

Theories I have at this stage:

1. I flare too high and it thinks it's a go around; or

2. My spoiler axis is noisy and this prevents deployment sometimes?

3. Throttle position isn't exactly at zero or where required for spoiler deployment?

 

Did anyone else have this problem and find a solution?

My guess is that the touchdown rate isn't high enough for the spoiler system to realise you're on the ground and therefore they wont deploy. I'm quite sure you'll find an answer in the documentation though, it's never failed me yet!

My guess is that the touchdown rate isn't high enough for the spoiler system to realise you're on the ground and therefore they wont deploy. I'm quite sure you'll find an answer in the documentation though, it's never failed me yet!

 

Yeah FCOM NP.70.1 tells me "if the number 2 engine throttles is not at idle at main gear wheel spinup, it is possible that immediately after AGS deployment the ground spoilers will retract.".

 

I wonder how engine 2 would not be idle when the other two are though.

 

I do have three throttle levers configured, I suppose it's possible my hand is not pulling the center lever back far enough. I'll certainly look at this on my next landing, it will surely be easier to understand than any hardware issues.. I hope it's not a hardware thing.

Have you checked the calibration? I've had this happen one time. I was on the perfect approach, the perfect wind, and just happened to plant it so softly the spoilers never deployed. Only happened once, the rest of my landings I'm cracking the eggs in the cargo containers. <_<

I'm reflying the landing with the autosave, and I can't reproduce it..

 

I fly in with a descent to 20 then I make it float back up to 30, spoilers still deploy.

I fly in and leave throttle 2 forward - spoilers still deploy ok. I have autopilot off, but all landings including the original one the A/T is still on so maybe that's not it. My settings are to override throttle "Only in Clamp Mode".

 

Also tested bounces, still can't reproduce.

Tested deploying only one or two reversers, still doesn't reproduce.

 

Auto throttle OFF- tested again.. I can't get it to happen.

 

I don't know what causes it, just that it happens occasionally.. so I hope to hear from someone who does know

Hi,

I have no idea what causes it but it happens to me too. I also have an axis for the spoilers but I only have 1 axis for the throttle. I usually keep my throttles at 0 and activate the reverser button (F2 key but remapped to joystick button). I never spent much time investigating though. I always thought that it was a glitch... Ill try to remember how it reacts the next time I land.

Yeah it seems pretty random and weird that I can't reproduce it on reloading the save.

 

It might be only happening after a long flight, maybe my quadrant goes into power saving mode then when I touch it after disconnecting autopilot it possibly sends a signal with the speedbrake position.. this is a longshot guess as it's hard to test..

 

I'll keep a close eye on my next landing if I remember after a long flight..

I hear this callout everytime, it is the first callout after MLG touches the RWY. Then immediately after main wheel spin-up I get "spoilers deployed" callout.

 

I never really bothered to check any further after I confirmed that the spoilers did deploy after spin-up.

 

Haven't been too picky on the subject, but after reading about MD-11 fatal bounce behaviour. I've studied it more closely. The Riyadh incidence investigation points to a conclusion where the crew doesn't feel the bounce, thus loosing precious milliseconds determining if a go-around should be executed. Meanwhile the spoilers deploy on spin-up, stalling the airplane just as it is on it's way down for the second time. Excessive control input worsened the situation, and a +4.0g third contact makes the aircraft come apart, disaster follows...

 

Don't know how "well" PMDG simulates such behavior, if at all?! But if real pilots in the real thing can't feel the bounce, I'm certain that I will not!

 

In this "world" the "no spoiler" call out, spells "virtual disaster" in the future, for me at least. It is just a matter of time.

 

Will be following this thread closely for updates

 

Morten

Accident report here :http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_030/nn_223936/EN/Publications/Investigation_20Report/2010/Report__10__2X003__MD11__Riyadh,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Report_10_2X003_MD11_Riyadh.pdf

I guess I should go around anytime I hear "no spoiler". It sure would be nice to narrow down the cause and be able to reproduce it.

 

Thanks for the accident report too, I was always curious about some of those MD-11 incidents but never got around to getting the details.

I guess I should go around anytime I hear "no spoiler".

 

Well, therein lies my future "hull-loss" Dan.

 

Hearing the "no spoiler" while I'm trying to make a decision to execute a go-around, I'll be left wondering if the spoilers did deploy at all, and since the spoiler deploy/retract function is on a toggle key. Hitting it, I might deploy them, instead of retracting them in those crucial (milli)seconds while I wait for TOGA engine spool-up and possible recovery.

 

Lot's of MD-11 drivers calls the real aircraft unforgiving. In our world, with toggle keys, and a cumbersome VC instrument scan, this translates into lethally unforgiving.

 

But it is what makes this bird a true challenge, in both worlds.

 

Morten

Yeah a toggle key is scary, you need to know where things are.

 

You don't need an axis but if you have a second button you can do it, in FSUIPC there is mappable controls for spoiler deploy, retract, increase, decrease etc.

Yes! As soon I finished reading my own post, I realized that. Need to look into that possibility.

 

Thanx Dan!

 

Q: You need the registered version FSUIPC right?

Not sure mate, I only ever tried mapping after buying it.

It's a must have anyway if you're going to use FS in the long term you'll end up buying some toys you want to map to things, for that you really need it. I got some Saitek panels and stuff and found I needed to map them to scripts to get everything working.

 

Just tried a bunch more landings in Kai Tak, first one after the long flight - no spoiler. Reloaded the saves and could not reproduce it arghh. Something I'm doing on a long flight or long approach is causing it. Maybe deploying flaps after arming spoilers or something.. Anyway I'm going to test single mapping of reversers to all throttle levers, instead of 3 different ones. That should ensure there is no doubt my throttles are all at idle. I hope it prevents this..

I guess I should go around anytime I hear "no spoiler". It sure would be nice to narrow down the cause and be able to reproduce it.

 

Thanks for the accident report too, I was always curious about some of those MD-11 incidents but never got around to getting the details.

 

In real world operations you would just manually deploy the spoilers if they did not deploy automatically. Going around after touchdown is discouraged.

 

As far as the problem with the MD-11 I have had the same problem. I find that if I reduce the power to idle at 50 ft or below the spoilers rerely auto deploy. If I reduce power to idle at 100 ft they almost always deploy. I reported this before the last update to the MD-11 and they said they fixed it but I still have the same problem. It has something to do with how fast the engines spool down or something, I don't remember for sure. Reducing to idle at 100 ft is a bit early but that is the only thing I have found that gets the spoilers to work consistently.