>i challenge ANY of you people to come up with a>Better PA28-161 on your own... go on do it and >lets see what kind fo #### gets thrown back at you...Clearly, a nerve has been struck. Try not to take any of this personally - difficult as it might be. The difference being the authors of this aircraft are charging for it, and must answer to a higher level than freeware developers (who shouldn't have to answer to any level, but do). I for one don't wish to spend US$25 on something that is merely the best thing offered so far - that doesn't mean anything to me. I want to know that the product competes on a level with other payware offerings of similar cost in terms of flight dyanmics accuracy, modelling of VC and exterior, and texturing. I have no recourse if I purchase something I don't like, so the default is don't buy it unless I hear good things.I pretty much dismiss the comments like "the wheels are too big" or "the nose is too flat" as they won't effect my experience with the plane, and might be very subjective if not carefully examined. What I want to know is how accurate does it fly compared to the real bird? How close is the VC and 2D cockpit modelled compared to the real bird? And I want to hear that from someone who has purchased and is a satisfied customer, and hopefully has some real world experience with flying that could reinforce that opinion. Five positive comments of that kind would outweigh all the negativity of this thread and more!Until then, I'll keep on wishing that there were demo versions and keep on feeling like I'm missing out...Best,sg

>the real archer pitches up with the extension of flaps, the>DreamFleet one pitches down. how the bloody hell is something>that friggin simple missed?Because the real Archer .......... DOES NOT pitch up with flap extention! This is a low wing airplane & not your typical high wing Cessna 172 that will pitch up. This same misleading information came up when the low wing Piper Meridian was released, when in fact the Merdian has a tendency to pitch nose down, just like the low wing RV's that I've flown.P.S. --- A real Warrior will also "spin", but very few simulated airplanes have that function at the moment. It's one of those things that requires a year or two of programming. And since I never felt the need to spin a real Warrior or Archer, I don't care. But I believe it's required in the U.K. for licensing.L.Adamson

Yikes, I come back after a few hours and this discussion is beginning to get a little heated! Funny that...I think what is important is that everyone express themselves in a clear, reasoned way rather than make broad sweeping comments that are based on emotion or short and sharp cutting/sarcastic remarks that do not enlighten anyone.I fly a real Archer & Warrior and nothing makes me grin more than seeing folks say something is "realistic" or not when they've never even been in the plane. Take the comment re the plain-looking Warrior III panel, obviously they've never sat in one. This is what I like to call "pseudo-realism" which is sadly all too prevalent in the FS world.So...For the knockers: Tell us in a little more detail why you don't like it and back up your comments. And don't say the "wheels look too big" without some proof because you may be giving away your lack of knowledge (not all the wheels on this package are the same - has it occurred to anyone that there are different wheel types?). Just because something doesn't look exactly like another released model doesn't mean it's wrong.For the backers: Same deal, for the benefit of those who don't have it please give details as to why you like it, how does it compare to the real plane if you fly one. Again back it up with proof not just hearsay or personal likes/dislikes/comparisons to existing models.Otherwise some serious misinformation will dribble out of this thread and all of us who have not yet bought this plane but are weighting up whether to do it or not will be none the wiser.

>Because the real Archer .......... DOES NOT pitch up with flap>extention! This is a low wing airplane & not your typical high>wing Cessna 172 that will pitch up. >>L.Adamson>Not with the first notch of flaps but with second and third it DOES PITCH UP. At least it did last Sunday when I last time flew it (Warrior III but it behaves the same way).

Alright. I tried the product itself out now. Not bad at all. First the model is very nice! All the effects, bells and whistles are animated and look good. And about the wheels - with what are you comparing them? I can say that they are usual wheels. Not all Pipers are fitted with asphalt-only tires. With small wheels its bad to land into and takeoff from longer grass surface runway for example. Big tires make the roll smoother. And who cares about the wheels anyway? A little note about the model - the ailerons and flaps endings are a bit too smooth and curved maybe, they should be sharper. But especially I like the strobe light effect with Warrior III.But the sounds and virtual cockpits are well done. Something was a bit wrong with the trimmer. When neutral is selected its littlebit too hard to pull the plane up. In real it indeed needs some force after takeoff to keep pitch up, but to get same result I have to trim it up. I also had time to try stall and spin. Who said its not working? It goes to spin quite well. But check your weight - heavier plane stalls and spins better than light one. Maybe RealAir has modelled such effects slightly more professionally, but we can forgive this to the new Australian Simulation developer. Everything can't be totally perfect, then we would have to put PMDG, PSS, RealAir and Captain Sim all together to one company.The configuration manager is wonderful. A lot of things to change there including crash tolerance, sensitivities, weights, repaint installation etc.$25 is definately not too high price. And Im sure we can expect patches too.

"perhaps I am spoiled by the RealAir aircraft.... "Once you've flown RealAir aircraft you're spoiled and there's no going back LOL.David

"1280x960x32- thats friggin huge.. have you tried lowering the resolution to see what its like- or getting glasses?????"You were doing OK with your arguements (despite being more than a little passionate) until this. 1280x960x32 isn't "friggin huge".You need to join the new millenium.Cheers,Greg

To back up my comments about the exterior: Trust me it does not look "right" , just like the Dreamfleet Archer. I am around the warrior/ archer every day, and the closet model I' ve seen is the Carenado Archer. I dont need any proof, just go on A. net and look at all the warriors and compare. That package is excellent exterior wise. And to everyone who says the wheels and such do not matter, yes they do! Everything, including the exterior is important to me because I would like a replica of the plane I fly. If they decioded to model bush tires on the Warrior, thats fine, but please include an option to switch back to the normal tarmac tires, which most training a/c are equipped with. I am not just bashing this product, so I dont know why you guys just started lashing out, but It does need improvement to be worth the $25.

Hmm Im not sure but if you check the models with wheel covers, they are probably with tarmac tires, not bush.

I wanted a warrrior w/ regular tires w/o wheel covers, otherwise I would have stuck to Carenado's archer...:-hmmm

Pitch-up or pitch-down with flaps? So far , it seems there are 3 opinions on this from R/L pilots - 2 say the Piper pitches up and one says it pitches down. Although ,to be fair, one of the "up" opinions does say that this only occurs for the later applications of flaps.Hmm-- so just what is the truth? I would never comment on flight characteristics of any a/c as I am not a R/L pilot - and even if I was, I wouldn't have an intimate understanding of the flight characteristics of every a/c ever invented. But as a Simmer, it would be nice to know and understand the different types of characteristics typically found in different a/c configurations - low wing, high wing, etc. But if the R/L pilots can't agree, how are we ever going to know?Barry

>As for the price I dont think $25 is expensive for any>aircraft considering the volume of work required to turn out a>complete aircraft nowadays.Peter,It is all relative. It is all about value you get for the price you pay. Compare Flight1's Merdian at $30 (or any other aircraft from Flight1) with this offering at $25. And then you will feel cheated. I can only magine the 'volume' of work & effort that went into every single Flight'1 creation as compared to this work. I have no problem with simulators being priced according to the man-hours that went into them.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Barry- Usually if you are going a bit fast, and you put down a notch of flaps, the Warrior tends to pitch up. We have learned to anticipate this by pitching down ahead of time, so things do not get sloppy. Also, the pitch up can happen during any of the Warrior's 3 notch flap settings. If you put out the proper notch of flaps at the right speed, the aircraft will not pitch up or down, but it will slow it down due to the increased drag, and it appears as though the plane is pitching down. Hope this clears things up.

MichaelI havent seen this aircraft so cant comment on its worth or lack of.My point is that creating a fully working and complete aircraft nowadays warrants prices of between $25 and $50.I agree with you that if the aircraft doesnt deliver its promises then the purchaser is going to feel cheated.Having said that there have been aircraft which people have raved about but which have left me cold in the water and visa versa.Some which I have tried and thought were a load of junk but refrained from saying so to keep the peace ;-)Peter

could it be somehow related to australia being on the other side of the dish? like, flapped warriors pitch up over here and down over there? just wondering...