Take off and airborne seems good and fun! then I decrease throttle, keep the lateral by making rudder inputs, and keep the pitch steady.. still I had hardship in keeping it not to move forward, backward and rapid descent.. how can I land it like smoothly? Should I focus on throttle to descend it or pitch?

 

I'm using Logitech attack 3 joystick and XboX Generic Controller. I have completed FSX missions 9 and 10 but I still have harsh landing..

 

 

Thanks

Just slow down to about 1 or 5 knots and descend at a low rate. It works every time. Flare just a TINY little bit.

Should I focus on throttle to descend it or pitch?

 

Pitch controls your airspeed, throttle (the collective) controls your rate of descent.

 

Flying a helicopter is like balancing one ball on top of another. A change in one control will mean changes in the other two as well to compensate.

 

Practice hovering and be glad there's not a 1 to 2 second lag between cyclic control input and response. Make control changes by small bumps, then returning the control to the original position while waiting to see the response. If the first bump wasn't enough, do another.

 

When landing, pick a spot on the ground and keep it moving toward you. This is the same thing you do on final approach in a fixed wing aircraft, except that just before touchdown your speed will be a lot lower. If you're overshooting the intended touchdown spot, bring the nose up a bit to slow down. If you're too high, lower the collective a bit. If undershooting, add some collective.

 

It takes a lot of practice. But in the end, you'll find it improves your fixed wing landings as well. Good luck!

 

Hook

Pitch controls your airspeed, throttle (the collective) controls your rate of descent.

 

Flying a helicopter is like balancing one ball on top of another. A change in one control will mean changes in the other two as well to compensate.

 

Practice hovering and be glad there's not a 1 to 2 second lag between cyclic control input and response. Make control changes by small bumps, then returning the control to the original position while waiting to see the response. If the first bump wasn't enough, do another.

 

When landing, pick a spot on the ground and keep it moving toward you. This is the same thing you do on final approach in a fixed wing aircraft, except that just before touchdown your speed will be a lot lower. If you're overshooting the intended touchdown spot, bring the nose up a bit to slow down. If you're too high, lower the collective a bit. If undershooting, add some collective.

 

It takes a lot of practice. But in the end, you'll find it improves your fixed wing landings as well. Good luck!

 

Hook

 

Thank You for the suggestions, will give it another try. Should I never use nose down/up to land and use throttle instead?

I feel your pain, OP. I'm new to helicopters too since I recently got DCS and an appropriate set of controllers to go with it. I hear that has pretty good Helicopter flight dynamics, and I can say that attempting to achieve any type of competent precision handling of the KA-50 Helicopter is truly a humbling experience. I have no idea when, or IF, I'll be able to attain the fine motor skills necessary to actually do a good job with it. When I'm landing, I'm thinking to myself "Ground Personnel run for your lives!" I have little to add to what has been said above, except I will say that a controller setup that has your joystick on the right or center of you, a dedicated collective on your left, and of course rudder pedals probably makes it a lot easier than what your using. At least ditch the Xbox controller and get a cheap throttle quadrant clamped on to the left side of your desk to work your collective.

Should I never use nose down/up to land and use throttle instead?

 

If you lower the nose, you will speed up. This is probably not what you want when landing, unless you've held nose up for too long and are going too slow.

 

On the final approach, there will be a spot on the ground where everything moves away from it as you approach. This is where you will touch down. This is usually described as "keep your intended touch down point in one spot on the windshield." It takes some practice to be able to see this every time.

 

If you're overshooting this spot, bring the nose up a little while lowering the collective slightly to stay on the same glide slope. You will generally be making very small corrections.

 

During normal flight a helicopter controls very much like a fixed wing airplane. Small nose up/down corrections will change your altitude without too much effect on the airspeed, and it's pretty much the same as a fixed wing plane. If a fixed wing plane will require a bit of extra power to get over a hill, so will a helicopter, but the helo usually needs the power to be applied earlier.

 

Speed control in landing is much more delicate in a helo, so only use nose up/down to control speed, not to control rate of descent.

 

Hook

One thing you need to remember. the lower you get to the ground you will slightly increase collective.

just an example

at 100 feet collective = is maybe 70%

 

the you start going down and you move collective to 20% and keep it there till you find the closer you get to the ground the faster you start to descend so:

 

at 30 feet collective = it is still maybe 20%

at 20 feet collective = slight start increasing maybe 23%

at 10 feet collective = increase a bit more to 25%

at 5 feet collective = increase a bit more to 30%

at 3 feet collective = increase even more to say 35%

at 1 feet collective = decrease the last collective slowly to sit it down gently

 

PLEASE NOTE: the percentages above is purely to illustrate the point that you initailly decrease collective but then the lower you get you need to increase the collective slightly to make up for the forces from the ground that have affect on helicopter as it get closer to the ground.

It is known in simple terms as "ground effect" where the lower the helicopter gets to the ground the less pressure there is for the blades as the ground effect have opposite reaction to blade forces. Note: This is purely explained in laymans terms. if you need proper explanation it is better to read up on helicopter physics.

 

if you keep collective at 20% at 30 feet and keep it there all the way to 1 or 2 feet the helicopter will start falling (going down) faster and faster the closer you get to the ground. The normal reaction is to just drop the collective altogether and then it is more of a crash then a land (that normally result in a "thump" with that you land.)

 

If you want I can create and post you a short video to illustrate tonight when I am home. let me know if you need something like this.

 

You need to use throttle (collective), cyclic and rudders/pedals to properly land a helicopter.

Again as other members already said, controlers play a huge part in properly being able to fly/land a helicopter. With Xbox controlers it will forever be a nightmare.!

 

the other problem is that you have no "feeling" as what the helicopter is doing in real life, I also suggest you initially use the "helicopter training gauge" to give you a much more feel as to what helicopter is actually doing. until you get that right and then drop the 3D/training gauge altogether and then fly by the seats of the pants once you mastered the basics. The video will explain the helicopter gauge I recommend.

If you lower the nose, you will speed up. This is probably not what you want when landing, unless you've held nose up for too long and are going too slow.

 

On the final approach, there will be a spot on the ground where everything moves away from it as you approach. This is where you will touch down. This is usually described as "keep your intended touch down point in one spot on the windshield." It takes some practice to be able to see this every time.

 

If you're overshooting this spot, bring the nose up a little while lowering the collective slightly to stay on the same glide slope. You will generally be making very small corrections.

 

During normal flight a helicopter controls very much like a fixed wing airplane. Small nose up/down corrections will change your altitude without too much effect on the airspeed, and it's pretty much the same as a fixed wing plane. If a fixed wing plane will require a bit of extra power to get over a hill, so will a helicopter, but the helo usually needs the power to be applied earlier.

 

Speed control in landing is much more delicate in a helo, so only use nose up/down to control speed, not to control rate of descent.

 

Hook

 

okay, think i get the idea but needs to be tested first.. thank you Hook, if I can get away from thist frustration, may get myself the Aerosoft Huey..

 

anyway just one more question, it seems that it takes nose up to decrease airspeed and also descend in order to land apart from slightly reducing throttle and little flare, having watched many helicopter landing videos, I found that instead of making a vertical landing (is there such a term lol), this video shows it landed just like a plane

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=helicopter+land+vietnam&oq=helicopter+land+vietnam&gs_l=youtube-reduced.3..33i21.137184.145598.0.145806.23.17.0.6.6.0.216.2177.3j11j2.16.0...0.0...1ac.1.WiYuQ37NhIk

 

 

I feel your pain, OP. I'm new to helicopters too since I recently got DCS and an appropriate set of controllers to go with it. I hear that has pretty good Helicopter flight dynamics, and I can say that attempting to achieve any type of competent precision handling of the KA-50 Helicopter is truly a humbling experience. I have no idea when, or IF, I'll be able to attain the fine motor skills necessary to actually do a good job with it. When I'm landing, I'm thinking to myself "Ground Personnel run for your lives!" I have little to add to what has been said above, except I will say that a controller setup that has your joystick on the right or center of you, a dedicated collective on your left, and of course rudder pedals probably makes it a lot easier than what your using. At least ditch the Xbox controller and get a cheap throttle quadrant clamped on to the left side of your desk to work your collective.

 

yeah tell me about it.. will think getting a throttle quad. Lol.. my landing spot needs a bigger tarmac than a 747 does.. I happened to have embarrassing hover, spinning round and round before it eventually crashed

One thing you need to remember. the lower you get to the ground you will slightly increase collective.

just an example

at 100 feet collective = is maybe 70%

 

the you start going down and you move collective to 20% and keep it there till you find the closer you get to the ground the faster you start to descend so:

 

at 30 feet collective = it is still maybe 20%

at 20 feet collective = slight start increasing maybe 23%

at 10 feet collective = increase a bit more to 25%

at 5 feet collective = increase a bit more to 30%

at 3 feet collective = increase even more to say 35%

at 1 feet collective = decrease the last collective slowly to sit it down gently

 

PLEASE NOTE: the percentages above is purely to illustrate the point that you initailly decrease collective but then the lower you get you need to increase the collective slightly to make up for the forces from the ground that have affect on helicopter as it get closer to the ground.

It is known in simple terms as "ground effect" where the lower the helicopter gets to the ground the less pressure there is for the blades as the ground effect have opposite reaction to blade forces. Note: This is purely explained in laymans terms. if you need proper explanation it is better to read up on helicopter physics.

 

if you keep collective at 20% at 30 feet and keep it there all the way to 1 or 2 feet the helicopter will start falling (going down) faster and faster the closer you get to the ground. The normal reaction is to just drop the collective altogether and then it is more of a crash then a land (that normally result in a "thump" with that you land.)

 

If you want I can create and post you a short video to illustrate tonight when I am home. let me know if you need something like this.

 

You need to use throttle (collective), cyclic and rudders/pedals to properly land a helicopter.

Again as other members already said, controlers play a huge part in properly being able to fly/land a helicopter. With Xbox controlers it will forever be a nightmare.!

 

the other problem is that you have no "feeling" as what the helicopter is doing in real life, I also suggest you initially use the "helicopter training gauge" to give you a much more feel as to what helicopter is actually doing. until you get that right and then drop the 3D/training gauge altogether and then fly by the seats of the pants once you mastered the basics. The video will explain the helicopter gauge I recommend.

 

"the percentages above is purely to illustrate the point that you initailly decrease collective but then the lower you get you need to increase the collective slightly to make up for the forces from the ground that have affect on helicopter as it get closer to the ground."

 

Interesting..thanks for the details sir. see if I got this right, Its the other way around when landing a plane one tends to decrease throttle until cut it off on touchdown while on helicopter the throttle should be increased slightly to against G and avoid hard landing or even crash.. am I wrong?

 

However I'm using the XboX controller for rudder, ATC pop up, differential brakes and views only. I am also using Logitech Attack 3 for flight control. Will it still be a problem?

If you're using an Xbox controller for the Yaw, it means your left hand isn't on the collective. I assume that is mapped to the throttle slider on your Logitech joystick. If you don't have rudder pedals, I think the best thing to do would be to just make use of the twist handle on the Joystick. It sounds like as currently set up, you are having to move your left hand between collective and yaw, and that probably is problematic.

If you're using an Xbox controller for the Yaw, it means your left hand isn't on the collective. I assume that is mapped to the throttle slider on your Logitech joystick. If you don't have rudder pedals, I think the best thing to do would be to just make use of the twist handle on the Joystick. It sounds like as currently set up, you are having to move your left hand between collective and yaw, and that probably is problematic.

 

 

In fact, I'm going to use the "playstation" controller only..

 

Alan Bradbury wrote:

 

Believe it or not, 'playstation type' controllers of the kind with two little 'thumb joysticks' are great for choppers in FSX. You put the tail rotor (rudder axis) on the left thumbstick, and the cyclic (ailerons and elevator) on the right thumbstick, then where your two forefingers fall on the front buttons on the controller, set the right side button to increase throttle/collective pitch (with button repeats on high) and make the left one decrease throttle (with button repeats on high). Then, get the Nemeth MD500 Defender chopper to practice on, since it has a big glass canopy (and good FPS in FSX) and this makes ground visibility good for when learning, which will help you stay ahead on the control inputs. Zoom back a bit in the VC to give yourself a wide field of vision.

 

I can guarantee you will be able to fly that chopper - with that PS-type controller set up - with precision, anywhere you like, and land it on a sixpence after about 20 minutes of practice. Be sure to centralise any other sticks you have connected up to ensure you don't get spurious command inputs clashing with the PS-type controller.

 

Just remember - right tail rotor pedal down with any throttle setting increases, to counteract main rotor torque, and pedal up with any throttle setting reductions, as the main rotor torque reduces.

 

Al

"the percentages above is purely to illustrate the point that you initailly decrease collective but then the lower you get you need to increase the collective slightly to make up for the forces from the ground that have affect on helicopter as it get closer to the ground."

 

Interesting..thanks for the details sir. see if I got this right, Its the other way around when landing a plane one tends to decrease throttle until cut it off on touchdown while on helicopter the throttle should be increased slightly to against G and avoid hard landing or even crash.. am I wrong?

 

However I'm using the XboX controller for rudder, ATC pop up, differential brakes and views only. I am also using Logitech Attack 3 for flight control. Will it still be a problem?

 

Yes you initially decrease collective but say for the last 5 meters (depending on environment and type of helicopter) to the ground you will actually slightly increase collective to make up for the blades less effectiveness the closer the helicopter get to the ground. That way you get super super soft landings. every time. I know it sounds funny but thats the way it work in real life also. I will see if I still have some real life documentation from days way past when i was still studying that explaining this phenomona.

If you're using an Xbox controller for the Yaw, it means your left hand isn't on the collective. I assume that is mapped to the throttle slider on your Logitech joystick. If you don't have rudder pedals, I think the best thing to do would be to just make use of the twist handle on the Joystick. It sounds like as currently set up, you are having to move your left hand between collective and yaw, and that probably is problematic.

 

 

In fact, I'm going to use the "playstation" controller only..

 

Alan Bradbury wrote (http://forum.avsim.net/topic/370630-best-fsx-helicopter-addon/ )

Believe it or not, 'playstation type' controllers of the kind with two little 'thumb joysticks' are great for choppers in FSX. You put the tail rotor (rudder axis) on the left thumbstick, and the cyclic (ailerons and elevator) on the right thumbstick, then where your two forefingers fall on the front buttons on the controller, set the right side button to increase throttle/collective pitch (with button repeats on high) and make the left one decrease throttle (with button repeats on high). Then, get the Nemeth MD500 Defender chopper to practice on, since it has a big glass canopy (and good FPS in FSX) and this makes ground visibility good for when learning, which will help you stay ahead on the control inputs. Zoom back a bit in the VC to give yourself a wide field of vision.

 

I can guarantee you will be able to fly that chopper - with that PS-type controller set up - with precision, anywhere you like, and land it on a sixpence after about 20 minutes of practice. Be sure to centralise any other sticks you have connected up to ensure you don't get spurious command inputs clashing with the PS-type controller.

 

Just remember - right tail rotor pedal down with any throttle setting increases, to counteract main rotor torque, and pedal up with any throttle setting reductions, as the main rotor torque reduces.

 

Al

Good luck with your playstation controlers..

If you want to fly with your thumbs buy this, it great

 

 

 

 

Yes, a RC aircraft simulator.

 

And let the 7 year old show you how to fly a chopper