Delidding gone wrong..

[jjjallen 37]

LOL you guys crack me up talking about blow torches and arc welders! Delidding is alot like marriage - do it once and you can do it a million times. Besides the jesting it really does give you a significant OC advantage because FSX just luvs a high CPU speed. Running at 4.9 in the 60's now with a H100 Corsair cooler and am a happy camper.

 

Cheers

jja

 

BTW forget about P3d and XP10 - FSX rocks.

[Noel 4,486]

Just goes to show how pathetically backwards FSX's code is. The machine is capable, the software is not.

 

I think you must be correct TMC. I'm at a loss though to understand the mechanism that would explain how the software would artificially restrict performance w/ high performance hardware configurations.

 

Do you happen to have the QW757 & either FTX KJAC w/ PNW, or FTX England? If so do a TO at EGLL or KJAC in clear weather and tell me what you see. I use UNLIMITED and frames locked in nVInspector.

[jjjallen 37]

I think you must be correct TMC. I'm at a loss though to understand the mechanism that would explain how the software would artificially restrict performance w/ high performance hardware configurations.

Not true. FSX is eminently capable of using ALL of your hardware resources providing your hardware is configured correctly. Cheers jja

[BimmerCop 332]

Not true. FSX is eminently capable of using ALL of your hardware resources providing your hardware is configured correctly. Cheers jja

 

Howcome FSX isn't making use of my videocard's DX11 capabilities? I think my card is configured correctly.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Noel 4,486]

Not true. FSX is eminently capable of using ALL of your hardware resources providing your hardware is configured correctly. Cheers jja

 

I don't see it as a question of using all or not using all of your hardware resources, but rather how it scales w/ the rated computing power of the system involved. When I hear of so many users who see frames in the mid to low teens in the NGX at KJFK I have to really wonder just how poorly the software as a whole scales. It's not just one user. I don't think it's anywhere near proportional and that has always been my sense w/ FSX thru the years. And even if it did, my sense is users with high end hardware just configure FSX such that it bogs down anyway.

[dazz 69]

That 4.5 to 5.0 GHz jump, which is actually an 11% clock boost (so a 10% more than that claimed 10%, must be significant I guess) doesn't only come from delidding, but (often) also from willingness to run Vcores in excess of 1.5V. Not everyone is that adventurous. Twice adventurous actually.

 

Most people even think it's crazy to overclock a 300 bucks 3.4GHz I7 at all, for just a few extra frames

 

Whether it's worth it or not, well, that's personal. But I don't see how a 11% clock boost can yield a 30% more minimum FPS. Sounds to me like the magical mystery boost or something.

[martin-w 3,234]

You de-lidding detractors seem to forget the minimum FPS factor, i.e. the worst case scenario. When your FPS get down to 10 at KJFK at night in the NGX and mine are at 13, which of us do you think is going to have the better simming experience? That's tangible, not subjective.

 

Just in case you are referring to me Techguy...

 

As I made clear, I am not a deliding detratctor.

 

I said in the post above, and in the other thread, that I have no problem with people delidding if they have low frame rate, and thus find 2-3 FPS useful. I don't require it, simple as that. Hence, I don't NEED to delid.

 

In addition, as I said in both threads, I do not suffer from extremely low frame rate. 27 frames per second is the worst I see in the NGX. Primarily, because I don't bog my system down with third party airport add-ons that hammer performance.I don't need or wish to have them.

 

 

I will say though, if you think 13 frames per second is better than 10, then yes, that is numerically true. However... 10 frames per second, and 13, are absolutely atrocious, and I would ditch the sim iimmediately if that was all I could achieve. I stopped getting such awful frame rates years ago. Even my old overclocked i7920 never suffered such a fate. This obsession with highly detailed, third party scenery and high sliders will surely destroy anyones performance But you know what, for me, maximum enjoyment doesn't depend on ultimate eye candy.

 

13 frames per second" for the sake of eye candy" is pointless in my view.

[martin-w 3,234]

Whether it's worth it or not, well, that's personal. But I don't see how a 11% clock boost can yield a 30% more minimum FPS. Sounds to me like the magical mystery boost or something.

 

It doesn't, at least not for me. If I'm parked at say EGLL, the NGX might drop to say 27.

 

27 plus 11% is 29.97. So 2.97 frames faster. So given that I don't have an issue with stutters, or anything like that, and that 27 is smooth, and that 27 is usually a brief occurrence... I don't require the 11% provided by dellidding.

 

And don't forget, that's a worst case scenario for me, and a best case overclock. In reality, most of the time my frame rates are far higher. It's more likely of course, that I wouldn't achieve a 5Ghz overclock anyway, perhaps more like 4.7-4.8 realistically. So you can reduce that frame rate courtesy of delidding even further.

 

4.5Ghz plus 6% = 4.77Ghz. So 27 FPS becomes 28,62 FPS.

 

A mere 1.62 frames per second gain. That's at a more realistic overclock expectaion.

[martin-w 3,234]

I don't see it as a question of using all or not using all of your hardware resources, but rather how it scales w/ the rated computing power of the system involved. When I hear of so many users who see frames in the mid to low teens in the NGX at KJFK I have to really wonder just how poorly the software as a whole scales. It's not just one user. I don't think it's anywhere near proportional and that has always been my sense w/ FSX thru the years. And even if it did, my sense is users with high end hardware just configure FSX such that it bogs down anyway.

 

In my view, it doesn't scale well. And that's not ssurprising given that the FSX engine is archaic. Don't forget, this is ancient, extremely outdated software, that Microsoft bolted new, far more demanding features to.

 

Even with the extremely powerful systems many of us now possess it's still possible to bring it to it's knees with certain slider settings, or by asking it to handle demanding add-ons.

 

Unless someone starts ftrom scratch, and codes us a new sim, you can expect FSX limitations to remain. And you can expect perfomance increases to remain nonlinear in relation to hardware advances.

[dazz 69]

10 frames per second, and 13, are absolutely atrocious

 

I rest my case.

[TechguyMaxC 516]

 

I rest my case.

 

If I wasn't de-lidded and OC'd to the hills it would be even lower, to the point of being unflyable in those worst case scenarios. I rest my case.

[Great Ozzie 101]

When your FPS get down to 10 at KJFK at night in the NGX and mine are at 13, which of us do you think is going to have the better simming experience? That's tangible, not subjective.

 

However... 10 frames per second, and 13, are absolutely atrocious, and I would ditch the sim iimmediately if that was all I could achieve.

 

Did you read what the Techguy wrote Martin?

 

If you normally push up settings and you're getting 20s to 30s - there can be occasions (like the above scenario) where your departure airport is fine / no problems then arrival like the above can happen. A couple a frames in that range CAN make all the difference from a stuttery mess to a decently fluidic ride.

 

Or I suppose one can be a low slider flyer and give up all the FSX goodness because of the once-in-while airport or wx fps killer.

 

Me... I go for all the eye-candy I can get. I'm addicted to it just like a some whack on crack. I don't spend thousands of dollars on hardware & software just to fly over something that looks like "scorched earth". /hyperbole

 

That said... with the cooling situation I have set up... and seems I have a couple good 3770k's (well... one semi-good) that don't need 1.4v to reach 4.8GHz at very reasonable temps... I do not see the need to de-lid the 2nd. I think I would rather invest in a better cooling solution at this point.

 

And as you said... you are happy where you are at. That is what is important... and too (seeking flightsim nirvana) drives this add-on / upgrade stuff.

 

So my point is... Techguy does have a valid point.

[dazz 69]

If I wasn't de-lidded and OC'd to the hills it would be even lower, to the point of being unflyable in those worst case scenarios. I rest my case.

 

You're just trying too hard to overcome FSX's limitations man. I can relate to that indeed, and you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone a 10% clock boost is going to make the difference between flyable & unflyable though

[dazz 69]

there can be occasions (like the above scenario) where your departure airport is fine / no problems then arrival like the above can happen. A couple a frames in that range CAN make all the difference from a stuttery mess to a decently fluidic ride

 

No, that's not how it works. At low frame rates, you still get the same FPS boost. so from 4.5 to 5GHz you still get about a 10% perf boost, which translates into a meager extra 1 FPS at 10 FPS. How is that going to make that much of a difference?

You guys can keep trying to overstate overclocking, IPC and memory performance in general and IB in particular. That's not going to change the fact that things are how they are

[martin-w 3,234]

name='Great Ozzie' timestamp='1358606218' post='2574313']

Did you read what the Techguy wrote Martin?

 

If you normally push up settings and you're getting 20s to 30s - there can be occasions (like the above scenario) where your departure airport is fine / no problems then arrival like the above can happen. A couple a frames in that range CAN make all the difference from a stuttery mess to a decently fluidic ride.

 

 

 

Or I suppose one can be a low slider flyer and give up all the FSX goodness because of the once-in-while airport or wx fps killer.

 

Me... I go for all the eye-candy I can get. I'm addicted to it just like a some whack on crack. I don't spend thousands of dollars on hardware & software just to fly over something that looks like "scorched earth". /hyperbole

 

That said... with the cooling situation I have set up... and seems I have a couple good 3770k's (well... one semi-good) that don't need 1.4v to reach 4.8GHz at very reasonable temps... I do not see the need to de-lid the 2nd. I think I would rather invest in a better cooling solution at this point.

 

And as you said... you are happy where you are at. That is what is important... and too (seeking flightsim nirvana) drives this add-on / upgrade stuff.

 

So my point is... Techguy does have a valid point.

 

Yes Ozzie, I did indeed read what he wrote. But I had already stated that I have no issue with others delidding, to gain the 2 or 3 frames, Ive not criticised anyones choice to do that. if they need to. So it is really irrelevant that I would suffer the same fate as you guys if I went for eye candy.

 

 

Of course I would see my frames hammered if I installed Manhatten X and whacked all sliders up, I would expect nothing less.

 

In addition, I have also stated several times now, in two threads, that if I were in the same boat as you guys, or for example if a new add-on zapped my performance, that I would reconsider delidding.

 

Good grief, I do have to repeat myself a lot here. :biggrin:

 

So my point is... Techguy does have a valid point.

 

It's a valid approach for him yes, because he refuses to reduce sliders, even if his sim is plunged down to 13 frames per second. But it's not a valid approach for me, simply because I don't run the sim to the max, and thus hammer performance. I favour frame rate, not eye candy. It's a personal choice.

 

Me... I go for all the eye-candy I can get. I'm addicted to it just like a some whack on crack. I don't spend thousands of dollars on hardware & software just to fly over something that looks like "scorched earth". /hyperbole

 

It certainly is hyperbole. :biggrin: My sim certainly doesn't look like scorched earth. It looks pretty good, courtesy of GEX, UTX, REX... and at high frame rate.