I am not a pilot so I am unsure if this question is even valid in a real world scenario. However in FSX when choosing an IFR plan when should you use GPS? Looking online I see a bunch of tutorials using the GPS direct to an airport destination.

 

My question is if ATC is providing you instructions on where you should be, can you use GPS? I have a flight plan from KSNA to KLAS. The plan takes me from KSNA --> APLES --> JIPEM --> 15THR --> KLAS.

 

When I take off, ATC is already instructing me what heading to be at, if I turn on GPS to follow my flight plan, ATC will complain and continue to instruct me to the heading they want me on. Are you suppose to use GPS when you have setup an IFR flight?

 

Maybe this is an FSX centric question, I may not have setup my flight plan correctly. My end goal is I would lke to establish a flight plan and use GPS to navigate to the destination all along ensuring that I am complying with ATC.

Usually, after ATC has vectored you to the first leg of your flightplan, you can then enable GPS. However it takes a minute after taking off for ATC in FSX to vector you on your route so give it a while.

I havent used FSX atc in a while, but I believe it should let you follow your FP with GPS. In the real-world, how it works is when you take off, you are either on a standard departure procedure (SID), which will lead you to your first waypoint, then use GPS for the rest, OR ATC gives you vectors to your route, which you then follow with GPS. The waypoints you listed above such as APLES, JIPEM, are waypoints that only a GPS or RNAV capable navigation system can detect, so aircraft MSUT have systems such as these and use them to navigate to. Unfortunetly FSX atc cant handle SIDS, and the atc in general is not very realistic. I suggest VATSIM www.vatsim.net for ATC, its the best there is, and your expected to use your GPS/FMS to navigate.

 

Alex

Usually, after ATC has vectored you to the first leg of your flightplan, you can then enable GPS. However it takes a minute after taking off for ATC in FSX to vector you on your route so give it a while.

 

I can definitely do that. The actual GPS functionality is working, but I wanted to know if you should even use it if ATC is advising you what heading your aircraft should be in.

 

For example in the flight plan I provided if using GPS, my aircraft will be taken up to JIPEM at which point ATC is advising me on their designated course. If I wanted to use GPS, I would have to ignore all of ATC's commands which is FSX is ok, but does not seem realistic.

 

So should you use GPS up to a certain point, or should you just ignore ATC for the sake of the simulation. Thanks again for the reply.

Use GPS until ATC starts to give you vectors again. Which is probably during descent.

At first FSX ATC should simply let you follow your flightplan. It ATC tells you to go into another direction directly then ATC isn't seeing your plan...

 

How did you create the plan? With the default FSX planner? Did you actually make it an IFR plan? Did you ask ATC for clearance (which tells them what you are planning to do)? If you did all that then ATC should simply guide you along your planned route and only bother you when you wander off too much.

 

However, FSX ATC sucks a little so at a certain point they will vector you all over the place to get to your destination without following the plan anymore.

 

Regardless of that: you file a plan, you follow it with your GPS and ATC will monitor you and only shout when you wander off, so using the GPS for IFR is okay, no problem and done in real life. Do NOT expect ATC to lead you all the way! So turning off the GPS or any other navigation device and only let ATC guide you is NOT realistic! However, near the end of the flight this order is turned around and you SHOULD follow ATC, even if they lead you of your chosen path.

 

So what you are trying to do is okay and good. It's just that FSX ATC isn't that good, at least not near the end of the flight.

 

When I was still using FSX ATC I made sure the plan I wanted to follow was the same plan as I filed to ATC. This made sure things would be going well in the beginning. Near the end I would simply follow ATC's vectors, leaving on the GPS for situational awareness and to figure out where they were leading me.

 

I now use ProATC/X which is still a work in progress but it sure does a better job of letting you fly your plan, including SIDs and STARs. It also won't let you switch controllers ten times a minute or vector you all over the country (or continent).

So when I fly IFR in real life You use ATC vectors until you are out of busy controlled airspace near the airport. Once they clear you of busy airspace they will say something along the lines of "resume your own navigation" which is usually when you reach the enroute portion, at which point I activate GPS and go from there.

At first FSX ATC should simply let you follow your flightplan. It ATC tells you to go into another direction directly then ATC isn't seeing your plan...

 

How did you create the plan? With the default FSX planner? Did you actually make it an IFR plan? Did you ask ATC for clearance (which tells them what you are planning to do)? If you did all that then ATC should simply guide you along your planned route and only bother you when you wander off too much.

 

However, FSX ATC sucks a little so at a certain point they will vector you all over the place to get to your destination without following the plan anymore.

 

Regardless of that: you file a plan, you follow it with your GPS and ATC will monitor you and only shout when you wander off, so using the GPS for IFR is okay, no problem and done in real life. Do NOT expect ATC to lead you all the way! So turning off the GPS or any other navigation device and only let ATC guide you is NOT realistic! However, near the end of the flight this order is turned around and you SHOULD follow ATC, even if they lead you of your chosen path.

 

So what you are trying to do is okay and good. It's just that FSX ATC isn't that good, at least not near the end of the flight.

 

When I was still using FSX ATC I made sure the plan I wanted to follow was the same plan as I filed to ATC. This made sure things would be going well in the beginning. Near the end I would simply follow ATC's vectors, leaving on the GPS for situational awareness and to figure out where they were leading me.

 

I now use ProATC/X which is still a work in progress but it sure does a better job of letting you fly your plan, including SIDs and STARs. It also won't let you switch controllers ten times a minute or vector you all over the country (or continent).

 

Thank you for this explanation. It is quite possible a problem with FSX. I use REX to create my flight plans and it would not be a far fetch to assume that maybe FSX is not fully importing those in or something like that.

 

Given a lot of people's responses, it appears that the best course of action may be to use ATC until it advises to resume your own navigation then use GPS.

 

I will look into those applications. Thanks again for everyones feedback.

I would recommend flying online with real humans as ATC. Nothing beats real humans IMO. You are of course expected to know how to fly what you have filed tho, so make sure that you understand the basics before you hop online

Thank you for this explanation. It is quite possible a problem with FSX. I use REX to create my flight plans and it would not be a far fetch to assume that maybe FSX is not fully importing those in or something like that.

 

Given a lot of people's responses, it appears that the best course of action may be to use ATC until it advises to resume your own navigation then use GPS.

 

I will look into those applications. Thanks again for everyones feedback.

Hi...Just wanted to make sure that you do know that even though you have a flight plan filed in FSX there are some GPS units which you have to manually enter the flight plan...the Reality XP units for example. Just wanted to be sure you are clear on that.

My experience with FSX stock ATC and stock GPS is that under IFR the ATC will direct your flight at least to a point. Once ATC says "resume own navigation" I will fly an intercept course to the GPS route, then switch navigation to GPS as I intercept the GPS route. I will then fly using GPS navigation until the ATC gives me a new heading.

 

My question is if ATC is providing you instructions on where you should be, can you use GPS? I have a flight plan from KSNA to KLAS. The plan takes me from KSNA --> APLES --> JIPEM --> 15THR --> KLAS.

 

 

Just a word of warning:-

 

You probably have the above Flight Plan programmed into your GPS.

 

You take off (with GPS disabled), and get vectored away from the airport by ATC.

At some time, ATC will typically tell you to

 

"Fly heading xxx direct APLES , then proceed on course (as filed)"

 

At this time your GPS is set to fly you on the route segment , DIRECT from KSAN to APLES.

 

What you must NOT do is just blindly turn on your GPS, because "it is going to take you to APLES."

Yes, it will take you to APLES, but NOT direct from YOUR CURRENT POSITION.

It will fly you to intercept the route segment that is Direct KSAN to APLES.

 

What you need to do is instruct your GPS to fly you DIRECT to APLES (assuming that is your instruction from ATC), and then when you get to APLES, you can set your GPS to start flying you the next leg APLES - JIPEM ....

 

If you don't do the DIRECT APLES from your CURRENT LOCATION, you can expect an attentive ATC to get back to you in a hurry, asking you "What do you think you are doing !! ".

I think FSX ATC will tell you to fly runway heading until you are about 1000ft AFE and then give you a vector to intercept your FSX flight plan. So for best integration it is good to have a leg on your flight plan close to the TO runway heading extended, so you are very close to a leg after take off. This will minimize the need to fly under ATC vectors. The default GPS won't allow it, but some addon GPS may allow you to set your heading and will interecept the flight plan leg automatically from that heading. On the approach end it's a bit more difficult as ATC will start to vector you quite a ways off. One way to avoid this (to a degree) is to request an approach transition from ATC. ATC will clear you direct to the entry waypoint of the transition which may be more realistic (depends on the geometry of course).

 

scott s.

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