What I'm saying is this: If the a/c model airfile is not set-up for icing then you won't see/experience it and the de-icing switch (so called) will be just a dummy (which in most cases they are!)

For proper icing conditions and its effect on the a/c you need it enabled in your weather engine be it an add-on or sim weather(which must be set to severe). Next you need those tables in your airfile and lastly you need icing enabled in FSUIPC. Then hopefully the de-icing switch will work properly. Even then it may still be a dummy because the developer didn't know or couldn't be bothered to set it up properly.

Ideally the de-icing switch should actually de-ice! Meaning if you don't activate it your a/c will at some point fall out of the sky smothered in clear ice! Which also requires a gauge to model the rate of ice accumulation.

De Ice works in the stock Baron and most I checked (with IF), well there's no actual ice but the planes respond to some of the switches.

 

Opus is without doubt the best weather engine ever released for FSX.

 

Hello! I hope I could say the same. After seeing today, that a new Opus beta was available, I decided to give it another run. Well...

 

Currently flying from KJAC to KFTG @FL170. Surface temperature was +9 and now at my cruise altitude, it is +11 (TAT 24). Extremely hot! (about +29 degrees from ISA if I calculated correctly).

My curent suggested weather setup is REX ESS + OD for the textures and OPUS FSX for the engine, best results I have seen yet

What I'm saying is this: If the a/c model airfile is not set-up for icing then you won't see/experience it and the de-icing switch (so called) will be just a dummy (which in most cases they are!)

For proper icing conditions and its effect on the a/c you need it enabled in your weather engine be it an add-on or sim weather(which must be set to severe). Next you need those tables in your airfile and lastly you need icing enabled in FSUIPC. Then hopefully the de-icing switch will work properly. Even then it may still be a dummy because the developer didn't know or couldn't be bothered to set it up properly.

Ideally the de-icing switch should actually de-ice! Meaning if you don't activate it your a/c will at some point fall out of the sky smothered in clear ice! Which also requires a gauge to model the rate of ice accumulation.

Where to begin... I assume this is FSX we're talking about.

 

Ok, exactly what tables are you talking about in the air file? There is a variable in the aircraft config file that needs to be set for the switches to work right. Here's where I added it to the Grumman Goose. There was no switch in the virtual cockpit or 2D panels, so I used a keypress.

 

[deice_system]

structural_deice_type=2 // LDH was 0 = None, 1 = Heated Leading Edge, 2 = Bleed Air Boots, 3 = Eng Pump Boots

 

 

Icing doesn't have to be set to severe to have a considerable effect on an aircraft. It just takes longer if the icing is less than severe.

 

I was getting icing before I ever installed FSUIPC.

 

You do not need a gauge to model ice unless you want to get totally crazy and have one that locks your controls in some direction after 40 seconds of accumulation; no thanks. Your aircraft WILL accumulate ice without any additional effort on your part, and you WILL feel the effects when it gets bad enough.

 

Here's the variable if you want to see what the ice is doing:

 

(A:STRUCTURAL ICE PCT, percent)

 

Display that somewhere and watch how it will increase or decrease depending on outside conditions. Multiply it by 100. If you want a quick and dirty idea of the effect, pretend it's pounds and add it to your aircraft weight. I've seen that number get well over 3000 before, and by the time I realized I had a problem it was almost too late to land.

 

Hook

Be careful Larry!

What I'm saying is this: If the a/c model airfile is not set-up for icing then you won't see/experience it and the de-icing switch (so called) will be just a dummy (which in most cases they are!)

For proper icing conditions and its effect on the a/c you need it enabled in your weather engine be it an add-on or sim weather(which must be set to severe). Next you need those tables in your airfile and lastly you need icing enabled in FSUIPC. Then hopefully the de-icing switch will work properly. Even then it may still be a dummy because the developer didn't know or couldn't be bothered to set it up properly.

Ideally the de-icing switch should actually de-ice! Meaning if you don't activate it your a/c will at some point fall out of the sky smothered in clear ice! Which also requires a gauge to model the rate of ice accumulation.Where to begin... I assume this is FSX we're talking about.

 

Ok, exactly what tables are you talking about in the air file? There is a variable in the aircraft config file that needs to be set for the switches to work right. Here's where I added it to the Grumman Goose. There was no switch in the virtual cockpit or 2D panels, so I used a keypress.

 

[deice_system]

structural_deice_type=2 // LDH was 0 = None, 1 = Heated Leading Edge, 2 = Bleed Air Boots, 3 = Eng Pump Boots

 

 

Icing doesn't have to be set to severe to have a considerable effect on an aircraft. It just takes longer if the icing is less than severe.

 

I was getting icing before I ever installed FSUIPC.

 

You do not need a gauge to model ice unless you want to get totally crazy and have one that locks your controls in some direction after 40 seconds of accumulation; no thanks. Your aircraft WILL accumulate ice without any additional effort on your part, and you WILL feel the effects when it gets bad enough.

 

Here's the variable if you want to see what the ice is doing:

 

(A:STRUCTURAL ICE PCT, percent)

 

Display that somewhere and watch how it will increase or decrease depending on outside conditions. Multiply it by 100. If you want a quick and dirty idea of the effect, pretend it's pounds and add it to your aircraft weight. I've seen that number get well over 3000 before, and by the time I realized I had a problem it was almost too late to land.

 

Hook

 

Now this sounds interesting although I'm not sure I fully understand, would it somehow be possible to use this with the NGX to have real icing effects?

would it somehow be possible to use this with the NGX to have real icing effects?

I'm not sure how the NGX handles icing beyond what's built into FSX. All I can say is, fly through severe icing for a half hour and see what happens.

 

I've only really messed with icing with the Grumman Goose. I've got over 1400 hours flying it and have only hit really severe icing one time using real world weather courtesy of Active Sky. I've hit lighter icing many times, but if it looks like it's going to build up too much, I'll descend to warmer air. Most of the time I pass through the icing fairly quickly.

 

I've got a "flight test" gauge that displays several bits of useful information. One of them is the aircraft weight. I've got the gauge set up to add the structural ice percent times 100 to the weight display, and the effect on the aircraft is very much like the same amount of added weight. Obviously, this is not why icing is a problem, but the effect is similar enough. The one time I hit severe icing and descending didn't get rid of it, I turned back to the nearest airport and by the time I landed I was "severely overweight" and the plane flew pretty much like I'd added the same amount of weight in the aircraft loading screen.

 

In the lowest icing conditions the "weight" goes up by a pound every second or two. In severe icing it goes up a lot faster, several pounds per second. The ice will dissipate at one or two pounds per second when you're out of icing conditions. After landing I sat at the airport in time compression for over half a game hour before the ice was gone. It was after that flight that I added the bleed air boots, which dissipate the ice instantly, but I still avoid icing conditions whenever I can.

 

I have no idea what the effect would be on a much heavier aircraft, as 3000 extra "pounds" won't make a lot of difference, but it sure made a difference in the Goose.

 

There are other icing effects besides the added weight, as ice on the leading edge of the wing will affect the lift, but I doubt anyone but a real pilot could tell the difference. Using "weight" works well enough for my purposes.

 

There's a freeware ice gauge that will add additional effects, like ice buildup on other parts of the wing and eventually causing problems with the control surfaces. If I read the code right, you have about 40 seconds after the icing begins before your elevator or rudder will lock at one extreme and you'll fall out of the sky. I'd prefer not to experience this myself, and without an indicator to tell you that you're accumulating ice you wouldn't know it was happening in that short amount of time.

 

But trust me, if you fly into severe icing you'll know it soon enough. My angle of attack went up from about 1 degree to over 5 degrees in just a few minutes... I wasn't watching the gauge at the time. By the time I brought up the gauge I was flying with the equivalent of over 9000 pounds gross weight. I was barely able to land.

 

While the "one percent of ice equals one pound of gross weight" calculation works for the Goose, it may not work the same way for a lighter or heavier aircraft.

 

Here's the full calculation I use:

 

<GaugeString>%( (A:TOTAL WEIGHT, pounds) (A:STRUCTURAL ICE PCT, percent) 100 * + )%!5d!</GaugeString>

 

Note: If you have deicing equipment on the aircraft and you turn it on, the ice goes away immediately. Try ignoring the icing conditions and see what happens. Actually, I'd be interested to hear how it works on a larger aircraft.

 

Hook

Thanks for the thorough explanation Hook, I understand the concept but what I still not fully understand is how to implement this into the NGX. Do I need to add the formula you mention in some cfg or ini-file or what exactly do I need to do to get the icing effects in the NGX?

 

I think I asked about icing effects for the NGX in the past in the PMDG forum and if my memory serves the answer was there are no such effects modelled.

Where to begin... I assume this is FSX we're talking about.

 

Ok, exactly what tables are you talking about in the air file? There is a variable in the aircraft config file that needs to be set for the switches to work right. Here's where I added it to the Grumman Goose. There was no switch in the virtual cockpit or 2D panels, so I used a keypress.

 

Hook

If you don't have tables 1513, 1518, and 1519 in your airfile then add them/copy them from another a/c.

Set 1513 Setting 1=1. Setting 2=18

Table 1518 Prop deice true or false depending on the a/c type.

Table 1519 Deice wing? Turbine? Inertial Separator?=2 The values here can be 0,1 or 2 depending on whether the a/c has deicing boots ot hot air bleed or nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Icing doesn't have to be set to severe to have a considerable effect on an aircraft. It just takes longer if the icing is less than severe.

 

 

 

 

 

Hook

If you are using the sim's weather engine then you must set severe as it defaults to slight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was getting icing before I ever installed FSUIPC.

 

Hook

There's not much point in having icing set-up in your weather engine and airfile if the setting in FSUIPC unwinds it all! The weather engine and FSUIPC must be in agreement.

 

 

 

 

You do not need a gauge to model ice unless you want to get totally crazy and have one that locks your controls in some direction after 40 seconds of accumulation; no thanks. Your aircraft WILL accumulate ice without any additional effort on your part, and you WILL feel the effects when it gets bad enough.

 

Here's the variable if you want to see what the ice is doing:

 

(A:STRUCTURAL ICE PCT, percent)

 

Display that somewhere and watch how it will increase or decrease depending on outside conditions. Multiply it by 100. If you want a quick and dirty idea of the effect, pretend it's pounds and add it to your aircraft weight. I've seen that number get well over 3000 before, and by the time I realized I had a problem it was almost too late to land.

 

Hook

 

If you don't have a gauge that models the "actual" accretion and dissipation of ice then there's no point in having de-ice set-up at all! Even though a large airliner can in theory stay in freezing rain some considerable time before the wings become affected, that's not the point. It is the affect freezing rain has on the control surfaces. If you're flying an ATR you need it!!

Do I need to add the formula you mention in some cfg or ini-file

All that formula does is display a couple of internal parameters that FSX uses. It does not implement icing or anything like that. The icing effect should already be built into FSX, and this would help track what's happening.

 

There have only been a couple of times flying FSX where I felt like I was experiencing an actual emergency, and flying into severe icing was one of them. The other was attempting a landing at Dutch Harbor in minimums using a GPS approach where I totally lost situational awareness and flew into the side of a hill. It was the first time I'd tried a GPS approach.

 

I don't know if it's possible in FSX to experience icing while on the ground, although I've had carb icing there occasionally. That's probably the only way you'd spend enough time in icing conditions to notice a real effect in a jetliner. The rest of the time you'll fly through the icing conditions before they become a major hazard... at least in my experience in FSX.

 

Hook

 

If you don't have a gauge that models the "actual" accretion and dissipation of ice then there's no point in having de-ice set-up at all!

I didn't have a gauge, and I experienced severe icing. Trust me, you don't want to experience severe icing.

 

I use Active Sky for real world weather, and it gives me ice accumulation at several different rates.

If you don't have tables 1513, 1518, and 1519 in your airfile then add them/copy them from another a/c.

The default Grumman Goose has none of these, and I still experienced severe icing. I'm guessing the same settings can be done in the aircraft config file. The Goose has prop de-ice and I added bleed air boots myself... in the config file, not the air file.

 

Hook

For those interested in enhancing the icing effects in FSX and FS9, I recommend the freeware IceV10 gauge available here on Avsim. Whether or not you use the gauge itself, the download has some excellent documentation on icing in both sims.

 

The docs mention the additions to the air file, but these are apparently only needed in FS9. I've got the same effects with config file entries in FSX.

 

Hook

Thanks Hook, I'll check that out!

 

Just had a look in the AVSIM File Library but couldn't find the file, can you tell me what the exact file name is or the name of the author?

OPUS is the best hands down, never had so much fun.

Hello Ian,

 

Out of curiosity, what are the things you didn't like about AS2012, REXe, IF and FSMeteo?

 

Thanks!