There are two prices when you buy an aircraft, one to the airframe maker and the other to the engine manufacturer.  If you buy an -200ER with de-rated engines, it costs less.  You don't get the range or payload.  You can then pay GE to up-rate your engines to the normal thrust to get the full benefit, just a software update.  The 200LR has the -110B and -115B as options, and I am assuming they are a lot more in cost to purchase and keep maintained.  Kind of like buying a Ferrari versus a Ford.  Both will get you there, but one will cost a lot more to maintain.  And no I don't mean the Ford.   :lol: 

But the 200F is not a 200LR. The question asked by the thread is why don't airlines fly the LR.

 

It's a 200LR in all but the name. Both the 200F & 200LR share the same airframe, engines and fuel capacity. I think the only difference is payload which is only around 800lb more for the 200F.

It's a 200LR in all but the name. Both the 200F & 200LR share the same airframe, engines and fuel capacity. I think the only difference is payload which is only around 800lb more for the 200F.

But still an LR is not an F.  The markets served are completely different.   The 200F appeals to a very different and much less niche market than the 200LR.  So as the question posed is why aren't the airlines using the 200LR the reasons are its narrow niche in the market.

Excuse me if I am missing something here, but Airlines DO fly the 777-200LR.

 

Emirates has them: http://www.emirates.com/us/english/flying/our_fleet/boeing_777-200/boeing_777-200_main_page.aspx

They acquired them starting in 2007 and operate them on their KDFW-OMDB routes as well as many other of their long distance routes.

 

Delta operates them to on their KATL-FAOR routes (and opposite) as well as their KMSP-RJAA routes and some others.

 

Air Canada Operates them on some of their routes.

 

Here is a List of all the 777-200LR operators and the amount of them in their fleet:

 

Delta - 10

Emirates - 10

Air Austral - 1

Turkmenistan Airlines - 1

Qatar Airways - 9

Air India - 8

Air Canada - 6

Ethiopian Airlines - 5

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) - 2

Iraqi Airways - 1

 

So, If I am not mistaken the -200LR is very much in use today. I have flown on them before too.

 

True the LR is not the most popular 777 because of its cost and size, but it does have the range for those long routes. It does hold the same amount of passengers as the 772, but it has a whole lot more range. The 773ER is very popular because it has a medium range not that different than the 747, hold almost as many passengers, and costs less to operate. When the new 777X's comes out in 2019 and 2021 I expect the market for them will go up tremendously as they will have better efficiancy, more range and the same capacity almost of the 747. 

 

So, to say the -200LR is not used is not true, because it is used, and is a very capable and wanted aircraft even if it costs tremendously more than the -200,ER or -300ER. 

 

I dont know, am I missing something?

We're just talking about the fact that most airlines that have the T7 do not have the LR. Your right that there are operators just not as many as the 200ER/300ER<br /><br />Lee

You did miss something, I was asking why they dont use them very much, in my first sentence I did accidentally leave off the "very much: part in the last sentence I did include that, hopefully that clears up the confusion.

Oh, ok so I did miss something. Well I agree with everything then, and I stand by what I said. The T7 is Boeing's most profitable plane, and the -200LR probably accounts for a very small amount of that because it is so expensive, and holds the same pax as the -200 but just has that range as a difference. The -200ER and -300ER probably account for >90% of the revenue coming from the T7 family.

I imagine the reason Boeing created the -200LR was they had a few customers that wanted a medium load aircraft that could do ANY city pair in the World.  Emirates and Qatar probably need these for their US and Far East destinations, but as they are "thin" routes don't need huge loads.  I know one of the big pushers for the 777X is Emirates, they love the 777-300ER but it needs about another 500nm rage for them to be ecstatic.  Thus I imagine any 777X that gets approval will have Emirates rage requirement in it.  Boeing/Airbus has always done niche aircraft, it isn't a huge change.  As pointed out the -200LR is really a -200/-200ER with extra fuel tanks; therefore FAA/JAA approval does not really cost much or take that long to get approved but it never will have a huge market either.  It just makes it attractive to have a few, it has the same parts, same crew rating; gives the customer an option to keep them from buying an Airbus A330-600.

As pointed out the -200LR is really a -200/-200ER with extra fuel tanks;

There are several important differences between the -200LR and the -200/-200ER, they are very different airplanes. The -200LR is somewhat similar to the 777F, but not with the -200/-200ER.

gives the customer an option to keep them from buying an Airbus A330-600.

 

The A330 is meant to compete with the 767, not with the 777 but the closet Airbus competitor is the A340-500 which was the longest ranged passenger aircraft before the LR, in fact it still operates the world's longest scheduled flight albeit in an all business class configuration from Singapore to Newark (which is probably a good thing, I would not want to sit in economy for that long of a flight). The biggest thing that the LR has over the Airbus is that it is a twin jet vs the A345's quad jet. 

 

Thus I imagine any 777X that gets approval will have Emirates rage requirement in it.

 

Emirates has already committed to ordering the new 777X if and when it arrives from what I have heard. It will really be a cool new update: New engines, like the 787,748 engines will be installed as well as a slightly different, much more composite wing. It will have approx. 5-750nm more range than the current -300ER and will also seat about 400-475 people which is a lot. I dont know if they will be making it longer, but I am assuming they have to to fit 100 more seats in there. 

 

 

As pointed out the -200LR is really a -200/-200ER with extra fuel tanks; therefore FAA/JAA approval does not really cost much or take that long to get approved but it never will have a huge market either.  It just makes it attractive to have a few, it has the same parts, same crew rating; gives the customer an option to keep them from buying an Airbus A330-600.

 

This is very true except that the A346 was and is the true competitor to the 777. Now though with the A346 not being built anymore, and getting older I think the 777 will begin to take over more in the realm, especially since it has a much lower operating cost and can fit into smaller spaces than the A346 as well has having 2 instead of 4 engines.

 

Emirates has already committed to ordering the new 777X if and when it arrives from what I have heard.

 

Not at all surprised by that...

Emirates is the king of fleet overlap, simply by buying every one of the largest aircraft available.

 

BUY ALL

 

THE LARGE PLANES

 

This is very true except that the A346 was and is the true competitor to the 777. Now though with the A346 not being built anymore, and getting older I think the 777 will begin to take over more in the realm, especially since it has a much lower operating cost and can fit into smaller spaces than the A346 as well has having 2 instead of 4 engines.

 

The A350 is supposed to replace the A340 and compete with the 777.

 

The A350 is supposed to replace the A340 and compete with the 777.

 

Yes, and as much as I hate to admit it, it will probably do better than the 787 in selling, but it does lack the range and pax capacity I think. Also, who wants to see those ugly winglets? god they are hideous. Also, as a major point, because Airbus took the lithium ion batteries out, that does cut into those fuel savings and economics they wanted by adding the extra weight, plus the extra batteries because NiCad are so much less inefficient than the Lithium ones.

 

 

Emirates is the king of fleet overlap, simply by buying every one of the largest aircraft available.

 

Haha. I have alot of admiration for Emirates, they have probably the newest fleet, they are always expanding and looking for new options and they give alot of money to Boeing. I love the fact that they buy new aircraft so often, and have hundreds on order at almost any point in time. I sometimes wonder where all that money comes from....777's ain't cheap!

 

Yes, and as much as I hate to admit it, it will probably do better than the 787 in selling, but it does lack the range and pax capacity I think.

 

Thanks to a recent design change the A350 will not use Lithium Ion batteries lol

 

 

Also, as a major point, because Airbus took the lithium ion batteries out, that does cut into those fuel savings and economics they wanted by adding the extra weight, plus the extra batteries because NiCad are so much less inefficient than the Lithium ones.

 

The Lithium batteries may weigh a bit more but they won't break the A350's range, the reason the new technology is crucial to the 787 is because they use a bleedless engine design so the airplane is heavily dependent on electrical power for many actions like pressurization, engine start, anti-ice, etc. The A350 will use the traditional batteries because it can afford to due to its more traditional bleed air design, BTW I'm not too crazy flying with a battery that is normally considered a dangerous good to the point where most if not all carriers refuse to transport it in cargo.