How to toggle 'Listen" mode?

[Dirk98 354]

Is there a toggle On/Off control for listening / sleep modes in MCE? When somebody speaks in my room MCE wakes up and starts answering some balderdash out of place or, even worse, starts executing some random commands. I know I could notch down the microphone's sensitivity or do more training etc, but the only truely reliable way would be just to assign a PTT-to-MCE button if there were corresponding control in MCE (besides, of course, mouse-clicking on the mic sign). Remember how it was in Shoot, or how you can set it in Teamspeak? The only PTT I can see in MCE's GUI is for ATC. I wanted to buy MCE today, but I won't use it without this toggle control, as I know from my experience that having voice recognition running in 'listening' mode all the time is bad for many reasons.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

[Dirk98 354]

Ok, I've figured it out with Ctr+LWin and voice recognition, but the process is rather convoluted, though working as needed. I'm surprised they have not programmed this in MCE as the software has been around for a while.

 

Dirk.

[FS++ 712]

Ok, I've figured it out with Ctr+LWin and voice recognition, but the process is rather convoluted, though working as needed. I'm surprised they have not programmed this in MCE as the software has been around for a while.

 

Dirk.

 

Hi,

 

The best way to run MCE is without the Windows speech bar active. That would get Windows to eventually interpret "start engine one" as "start notepad" and things like that, never mind Internet Explorer firing-up without reason etc...

 

If the speech bar is running before you start MCE, the latter will assume you want to use the speech engine in "shared mode" with other speech enabled applications that are programmed to run in that mode.

 

You could eventually run VoxATC alongside MCE without being in shared mode.

 

Unless it's the intention, make sure the speech bar isn't active, and that you have option "Exclusive Access to Recognizer" ticked in <Command> tab.

 

That way, all voice commands are intended for the simulator irrespective of whether it has the focus or not.

 

When you hold down the DELETE key, all commands for interacting with FO are suspended, and those for talking to ATC are enabled. The opposite happens when you release the key. The same applies to the joystick assigned PTT button.

 

There are a couple of keys MCE listens to, that while held down will suspend all recognition. They are intended for Vatsim or Teamspeak users.

 

Assign any of the <END> or <Space> keys in Teamspeak or Vatsim software, and you'll get to talk online without FO getting in the way.

 

It works as PTT, not as ON OFF switch though.

 

MCE operates in Open mike. You only need to use the DEL key for talking to ATC.

 

You could eventually get a headset with a hardware switch that mutes the mike and you'll be OK.

 

In the past (before first release), we've tried using a PTT in order to talk to FO, and the result wasn't pretty. Every time you need to say something, you would have to wait until the speech engine has enabled all the relevant speech contexts or the reco won't happen as expected. Cockpit Chatter has used this approach, and you will often hear about the need to wait until you hear a beep before you can talk. Switching reco state hundreds of times on and off could also make the speech engine unresponsive after a 2 hours flight. Therefore, it isn't a workable solution.

 

Hope this helps

[Dirk98 354]

I understand your points, thanks. But they don't adress my main inconvenience, that the program occasionally picks up voices in the room (by people, tv, software etc.) and reacts in its way. This is because MCE is constantly running in Listen mode (and some cpu cycles wasted as well).

 

I've figured it out my way and it has worked better for me so far. Perhaps my method may give you some additional design ideas. This is how I do it:

 

1. Assign a dedicated button on the joystick that sends 1 time x "Ctr+LWin" while the button is pressed and 1 time x "Ctr+LWin" when the button is released. (Better than flooding the system with the repeated keys sending).

2. Start Voice Recognition, check out the VR applet goes listen / sleep by pressing / releasing your "PTT" button.

3. Minimize VR applet to the tray ("-" sign).

4. Start FSX main menu.

5. Start MCE, check Exclusive access to Recognizer is ticked or unticked as required.

6. Minimize MCE (green triangle)

7. Select your flight and launch it.

8. Wait for "Simon to coordinate with ground services".

9. Say "Set Parking Breaks" to make sure MCE is sleeping - GOOD!!!

10. Press and hold your button, say "Set Parking Breaks" - and see MCE executes the command.

11. Move on with your flows, checklists etc.

 

The above has worked fine for me so far, no wrong hits. I don't care anymore if somebody occasionally yells or whispers behind my back, since when I don't press and hold my dedicated button on the joystick VR is sleeping anyway. I could easily add VoxATC On/Off on another joystick button, rocker, hat etc (but change Recognizer in MCE). And btw, while we are at it: VoxATC is a good example of how the PTT button should be implemented, actually VoxATC sleeps! until you press and hold the PTT toggle, good that you mentioned it yourself, FS++. It's how it should be done.

 

At least that could be done as an option in MCE, but it's better always better to have VR sleeping except for those moments when you want it be listening to you.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

[Dirk98 354]

I've tried rc4 with mce (mce/rc4 tutorial), I run rc4 on the networked pc, so rc4 voice comes out via speakers. Shame, on hearing rc4 MCE immediately starts living on its own, it hears rc4 voices and assumes it understands some of them. Please, make the PTT control similar to how it works in VoxATC, i.e. Listen / Sleep or like in some of FS2Crew products, there are many working examples in other gaming software of what I'm asking for.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

 

PS: I can see a lot of work had been put in MCE to make it work with rc4 and pfe, I really wish I could use it.

[WR269 367]

Have you tried using the "microphone" icon on the MCE control panel? It disables MCE voice recognition until you enable it again. Or you can switch MCE to dialogue mode, it ignores you while you have a "dialogue" with someone else.

 

I only figured this out because my First officer stopped listening to me! LOL

[Dirk98 354]

 

Have you tried using the "microphone" icon on the MCE control panel? It disables MCE voice recognition until you enable it again. Or you can switch MCE to dialogue mode, it ignores you while you have a "dialogue" with someone else.

Thanks Will, as I mentioned I found some convoluted methods, to make MCE more 'intelligent' and not to pick up any white noise it hears in the room, lol, but why going into all this trouble if the developer can easily make it much easier and straightforward for their customers? Actually the problems FS++ wrote about did not directly apply to what I was asking for as an option. It should not be that difficult to add MCE sleep/listen control, that can be assigned to a key or a joystick button, whatever is easier. See, VoxATC, FS2Crew came to this in their voice recognition software at some point, I don't understand why MCE can not. For what it matters I've already bought MCE, and I'd really like to use it with rc4 and pfe and others, it is just not working well now for the reasons I mentioned. If I start to dumb down my microphone, recognition will also become worse, and I know, that the software will still pick up occasional voices in the room, I had experimented a lot with a few of VR programs.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

[charlie130 196]

Hi.

 

Excuse me for being a little confused by original posters question. 

 

If we are using MCE to simulate a real world cockpit environment, I question the requirement for a "Push To Talk" button, to talk to the 1st officer?

 

If your simulator environment is noisy, a headset microphone with a microphone switch in the cable would work. I use the MCE icon top left, to mute if I get interrupted.

 

My microphone is adjusted to admit only my voice into the simulator. Granted its rather quiet on recordings, but gives no problems.

 

I do not believe its a question of making MCE "more intelligent", just a case of your microphone having too much gain. Softly spoken commands are picked up well with a lower gain microphone and  any extraneous sounds are not admitted.

 

Just my two penneth.

 

Regards

David

[Dirk98 354]

Hi.

 

Excuse me for being a little confused by original posters question.

How does it bother you, Charlie? I hope you realize, that this extra option I am asking for would not change in the slightest the way you fly, Charlie. For me it would make MCE useful and enjoyable. I have family, children, TV set, online podcasts, AXE, rcv4, PFE (pre-recorded chat) etc that unfortunately affect what MCE 'hears' in my environment, no matter how much I dumb down the microphone. Most of voice recognition software for gaming have this option in one way or another. Unfortunately MCE without this option, is a waste of money for me. I just hope it shouldn't be too difficult for the kind developers to add this sleep/listen mode toggle. Actually I bought this program to show the devs my good intentions after making my comments and request.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

[FS++ 712]

 

And btw, while we are at it: VoxATC is a good example of how the PTT button should be implemented

 

 

If you mean writing something on the screen, and if the first input doesn’t work, the next time the user presses and releases the PTT just assume he said the right thing. MCE doesn’t listen to a single expected sentence. Tens of thousands of them can be spoken any time. It’s totally unpredictable. Therefore, will pass on that generous suggestion.

 

Unfortunately MCE without this option, is a waste of money for me

 

 

I don’t want to start doubting your real intentions. Let me just say this.

 

If I had a chance to inspect a product (remember MCE is on free Demo) and find it a waste of money, I simply wouldn’t buy it.

 

Assuming I had genuine interest in it with just a few reservations, I would have written to support, asking for a specific feature to be implemented before making the commitment.

 

Clearly you haven’t done that.

 

Maybe you thought buying it will give you the power to come on this forum to boast about how you can fix a product that has been in development for 8 years with just a couple of key strokes.

 

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and suggest you get in touch with support with your order number and full name. We will show you it’s trivial to implement that request.

 

However, we won’t make it standard behaviour in the app, simply because it will destroy the whole experience with the Demo. People are impatient these days. Someone plugs the mike input into the blue “socket” instead of the “pink” one, and after 10 minutes with the Demo concludes “it doesn’t do anything”. It will be the same with a PTT button to talk to FO.

And even when you are aware of that, when you are in a stressful situation where you have to give multiple commands in a row, try to be mindful of the fact you’ll have to wait half a second for the speech engine to be ready to take input every time you want to say something. Even “Yes please”.

 

It’s one thing to transmit to ATC every now and then, quite another to have good crew coordination with FO.

[Dirk98 354]

And btw, while we are at it: VoxATC is a good example of how the PTT button should be implemented

If you mean writing something on the screen, and if the first input doesn’t work, the next time the user presses and releases the PTT just assume he said the right thing.

No, I don't mean that,FS++, actually I don't know where and why your are coming from at VoxATC with all this crappola.

Maybe you thought buying it will give you the power to come on this forum to boast about how you can fix a product

What?! I can't beleive how much assertive you are in your little assumtions, FS++.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and suggest you get in touch with support with your order number and full name.

I myself will give you the benefit of the doubt, FS++, and suggest you be less assertive in your flippant judgements about other develpers' products and intentions of your customers. Meanwhile I'm making a full copy of the thread lest you try to twist my words elsewhere on the boards.

 

Rest assured with your attitude I don't want anything from you, FS++, or your support.

 

As I mentioned above MCE was a total waste of money for me without "sleep" mode, but that was my intentional decision to buy and substantiate my request for the additional option. But NEVER did I mention or assumed you OWED me one for the little ~49EUR I paid for MCE, so don't be worried about the return.

 

I just don't get what makes you so defensive and insecure when asked about a useful additional option/functionality to your product?

 

 

Dirk.

[Dirk98 354]

I really want to make MCE useful for users like myself, so please try to dig the part called "Hard Mute" and "cough" in the context:

 

============================================================================================

Mute Key Setup

'Mute' is used to prevent the virtual First Officer/ PNF from acting on any inputs received by the Speech Recognition system.

'Mute' is useful when communicating with on-line ATC, or if you do not anticipate communicating the the virtual First Officer for extended periods of time.

There are two kinds of Mute: Soft Mute and Hard Mute

 

Soft Mute

Used when you only want to employ Mute temporarily, such as when communicating with on-line ATC.

Works on a "Push-to-Hold" basis.

If using on-line ATC, you would assign 'Soft Mute' to the same key used for your ATC 'Push-to-Talk (PTT) switch'.

An "M" symbol will appear in the left hand side of the FS2Crew Main Panel display area when operating.

By default, the LEFT or RIGHT CONTROL key acts as the SOFT MUTE KEY.

To create a Soft Mute key assignment in addition to the default LEFT and RIGHT CONTROL KEY, create a joystick or keyboard button assignment for

'PROPELLER SYNC (ON/OFF)' in the FSX 'SETTINGS - CONTROLS' menu.

 

Important Reminder: Even with mute enabled, the Speech Recognition will still detect any inputs received via your microphone; in fact, you will still see

activity in the Green Bar that displays what the Speech Recognition system is 'detecting'. The difference, however, is that the virtual FO will not act on any

words or phrases the speech the Speech Recognition system detects.

For example, if you cough, and the Speech Recognition system somehow interprets that as "Gear Down", you will still see "Gear Down" in the Green Bar, but the

FO will not put the gear dow

 

Hard Mute

Used when you want to employ Mute for extended periods of time.

Works on a Toggle On/Off basis.

An "M+" symbol will appear in the left hand side of the FS2Crew Main Panel display when operating.

Can be toggled On/Off by pressing the "HM" button on the FS2Crew Main Panel.

Can also be toggled On/Off by creating a keyboard or joystick assignment for ALTERNATE STATIC (ON/OFF) in the FSX 'SETTINGS - CONTROLS'

menu.

 

Important Reminder: Even with mute enabled, the Speech Recognition will still detect any inputs received via your microphone; in fact, you will still see

activity in the Green Bar that displays what the Speech Recognition system is 'detecting'. The difference, however, is that the virtual FO will not act on any

words or phrases the speech the Speech Recognition system detects.

For example, if you cough, and the Speech Recognition system somehow interprets that as "Gear Down", you will still see "Gear Down" in the Green Bar, but the

FO will not put the gear down.

=============================================================================================

 

The above comes from a renown and very much experienced developer of FS9/FSX addons, see if you can add something similar to Hard Mute in MCE.

 

Piece,

Dirk.

[WR269 367]

Dirk, I think it is a bit harsh to go to a developer's forum and call their product a waste of money because Voice recognition is listening to any voices in your microphone. Comparing the product to any other developer as inferior or less experienced because they don't have this one feature may not be the best way to get support either.

 

Other developers would probably just delete the thread and pretend your request never happened. As with every software, they are all different in a niche market, and although MCE may give you features that others don't, it is possible it won't give you features that others have. That is the nature of the business, have you taken up the developers offer to contact them directly so they can perhaps set something up for you?

[bblackkbirdd 6]

Hi, Gerald (and Will)....the Ol' Blackbird has just landed ---  this thread is VERY interesting for me - (not because of the remarks of anyone - we all have our own opinions, and we make choices based on our own personal view of things  -  always remember, Gerald, you can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time....).  :rolleyes:

 

NOW - You both may know just how much I appreciate and enjoy MCE for FSX.  It is without a doubt, one of my 3 TOP FSX addons.  It is a REMARKABLE product!!!  It has worked (most of the time) very well for me.  That being said - this thread taught me something I never knew before - and I have read ALL the MCE documentation multiple times.  I always thought I had to have Windows Speech Recog ON for MCE to work.  It is only from Gerald's response below that I now realize I should've been turning OFF Speech Recog BEFORE I started MCE. 

 

Now that I do that, MCE works without any "interference" from Speech Recog - so no occasional "Blips" like opening Notepad, or some other errant thing.  WOW!!!!!!!!!!   Sorry, Gerald - I don't know how I could've missed that in the DOCS.  I am a very good reader - never saw that info in there.  All I'm saying is MAYBE that needs to be made more prominent in the DOC info.  Originally, when I thought I had to have Speech Recog ON, I almost declined buying MCE - but I went forward; did the speech training, etc..  However, I always thought that both VoxATC and VAC (Voice Activated Commands) had a distinct advantage over MCE, not needing to have Speech Recog running at all.  Now, I find that MCE doesn't need it either.  WONDERFUL!!!  Wish I'd known sooner, is my point.  Maybe it's "my bad", as they say - don't know. 

 

Gerald - your words.....

"...The best way to run MCE is without the Windows speech bar active...."   Wish I'd known this sooner!!  :lol:    

 

 

OK - I've taken enough of your time.  I still wish you were making MCE compatible with ProATC/X, Gerald.  I know - Mourad is supposed to.  But I sure would love to see ProATC being "driven" by MCE - yee haa!  That would be amazing!

 

All right, Gents - thanks for reading the "ramblings" of an old man!!!  Thanks again, Gerald and Will - MCE is still one of the very best Addons for FSX - Period.

 

All best,

Ray Landolt (Blackbird)

[Dirk98 354]

Dirk, I think it is a bit harsh to go to a developer's forum and call their product a waste of money because Voice recognition is listening to any voices in your microphone.

WR269, I hope that everyone can see that never did I call MCE software "a waste of money", not once. Yes it was a waste of money for my circumstances as I wrote, due to yada yada yada etc. (see above) which is not quite the same as calling MCE software "a waste of money" directly. But I don't understand though why FS++ in a fit of polemical temper came unhinged with quite negative comment about other's developer fine product, that many in fs community consider a gold standard. If they/you think I provoked it - I'm really sorry, I realize how thin is the layer of our hobby, so I don't want to rub it in more than I did by now. Anyhow, I'm still hopeful that the fine MCE team will find a way to make their customers even more happy, look how active they are with updating their software regularly.

 

Dirk.