Everyone here is all of sudden saying that the Microsoft Cessna is a lousy plane just because F1 came out with their Skyhawk...Here's my take....First off, yes, I do fly the 172 in real life, just to get that out.Visual ModelFlight one's looks good but not great. The previously mentioned dihedral isn't what I'm talking about though although there should be some quite noticable dihedral on the wings. The windshield is too deep, and not curved enough. The wheels look too small, and the paint job needs overhaul. The nose of the skyhawk also needs to be looked at as it doesn't look like the nose section on any 172 I've flown. Good try, and I know the visual model wasn't your first priority, but Carenado's 172N is still the best shaped Skyhawk out there. Microsoft's Skyhawk is a good try, and good representation, but not perfect. Not as good as flight one's, but pretty close. The flaps need attention as they don't extend nearly far enough when they're fully down. At the full flaps setting 40 or 30 depending on what year plane you're flying (I like having the full 40), the flaps should come down over the rear side windows, the MS 172 doesn't do this. At flaps 30 the flaps are still about an inch above the windows, not accurate. The windshield is also a point of interest as it is the wrong shape also. Also, the MS aircraft has a slight nose down sit to it on the ground whereas most 172's have a nose up sit, the amount of nose up attitude depends on the plane however. Flight DynamicsMany people have complained about the flight dynamics of the flight one C172. When the trim is set for takeoff, as per the index by the trim wheel, it climbs excessively after takeoff, stalling on departure. A workaround has been found, by placing the trim to neutral, but that is not really the best solution. If this is going to be part of a training comercial release, the trim issue must be fixed. I always check if the trim is set to takeoff, and if it isn't I always set it there. The index mark is there for a reason, and you shouldn't take off with the trim anywhere except within a tick mark of the T/O index. If I'm paying for a release, it should be free of bugs as obvious as this.The Microsoft 172 isn't bad, but it still has some issues. First of which being it won't do over 99 knots in level flight at 6500 with mixture leaned. I can get 120 out of the 172 I regularly fly. It is almost necessary to download the Real Air 172 to get the default plane to fly like a 172.Virtual Cockpit and PanelI think the guages in the F1 cessna are a major improvement over the default aircraft and it's worth it to buy the aircraft just for the panel. The Pop Ups are great, and it overall gives a good 172 feel. The Virtual Cockpit is also great, but I don't like how the throttle and mixture were done in Bitmaps. If they were 3D I coulnd't find a better C-172 VC (and still can't even though they're bitmaps). Would it be that difficult to make them 3D instead of images?The microsoft 172 is good enough. It looks like a 172, but is nowhere near the photo quality of the F1 Skyhawk. The only think I like better about the microsoft VC is that the Throttle and Mixture are 3D shapes.Just my .02 cents, please add your comments, Evan

Hi Evan,Thanks for your comments. Where do you fly out of?Regards,Jim Rhoads

Hi Evan>>A workaround has been found, by placing the trim to neutral, but that is not really the best solution.<>If this is going to be part of a training comercial release, the trim issue must be fixed.<

Thanks for the heads up Evan. I was pretty satisfied with the default 172 myself. The default 172's flight dynamics and feel are great if you own the CH Yoke & Peddles... I use it for practice before I fly all the time... I fly out of Crystal MN...

Jim,I've flown out of Henderson Executive, Skypark, and many other places depending on where I was living at the time.,Evan

This post was not meant as a slight to the great guys at F1 or their C172. I was merely pointing out that the Default C172 isn't that bad, and that the flight one aircraft has it's quirks...great job guys, and keep up the work. EvanBTW, I own many add on planes by many add on manufacturers, and you're are usually at the top of the pile.

The shape of the 172N is NOT the same as the 172R. This point should be understood if you wish to draw comparisons. It might be prudent to let us know just how many hours you have in each as you can only make comparisons if you have flight hours in both. Otherwise you're comparing apples with pears.Allcott

>This post was not meant as a slight to the great guys at F1>or their C172. I was merely pointing out that the Default>C172 isn't that bad, and that the flight one aircraft has it's>quirks...great job guys, and keep up the work. >>EvanHi Evan,Understood and thank you.But there is also a difference between quirks and certain areas of flight which are based on technique. I have never seen any aircraft (and I fly plenty of them) that would depart soil in the takeoff trim position and would not require a trim change once airborne.That is the point that Steve and I are making.Sure I can distribute (and probably will now) a configuration that will darn near auto fly the aircraft once airborne and continue to, but that aint real life. And as Steve pointed out, this is not a training application. It is a entertainment "port" of our training application.Evan, where do you fly out of?Regards,Jim Rhoads

Jim why don't you just make the 172 a training add-on... I keep hearing you say "this is not a training application" but why does it have to be that way. Why ask us to pay for something that

Always amazes me what a new product brings out of the wood work. Any Tom Dick or Harry can fly a 172 including thousands of teenagers all with varing opinions too, take a number. Michael J flys one and we even know who he is and with a few thousand posts on his belt, I believe he has earned not only the right to talk but our repect in listening to what he has to say. So who are you to blast under the guise of *nice*? I'll tell you what I think as someone who does nothing but test aircraft in flight simulator, this is the best 172 ever made for flight simulator hands down. Perfection is subjective. The shape of something is trivial at best. I don't purchase an add-on for the exterior, sure it's included and done very well but I fly from the cockpit which by the way is the most stunning panel and panel layout I have seen. True to it's core this little bird sems geared for training not eye candy although I would venture to state outright that this VC is the sharpest that I have ever seen. Want a better one? I believe you fly it right?Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Sorry don't agree with you. Flight 1 does not owe us anything and they have been very clear about the Main Training 172. Why take issue with something they chose to give the comunity because we asked? What more do you want for this price? What you want is the other product, well why don't you wait like the rest and then pay the price it will go for insted of asking for ALL the goods here? The professinal one is geared for professinal pilots and will cost much more than 25 bucks and for good reasons. Maybe even have a FAA approval, who knows. If it is not too much I will even purchase it as I believe many others will (if possible that is). I don't see what goods you are not enjoying for 25 dollars? Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Randy I don't know anything about anoher product... Can you post a link???Please don't mention price because thats not an issue for me...

http://www.flight1tech.com/ Sorry thought you knew about it ;-(Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Randy why do you always have to blow a gasket over everything??? Your not on any kind of medication are you??? :-roll

Thank you...