Fly-By-Wire of the 777 and it's simulation

[termtek 1]

Nope. Wrong way round.

Sorry my bad English.....trim works in order to maintain reference speed !

 

 

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[777simmer 117]

I don't think you need to submit support ticket coz the FBW simulates correctly!

 

Please be aware that 777s system is different to Classic Boeing and Airbus.....

 

Trim for speed means the trim works while speed changed! When you change the conf, gears...target speed you need to trim it!

 

When you on vref with correct conf, you don't need to touch the trim! Or the reference speed will be changed ! To understand the logic, please forget what Airbus does first!

 

Hope this helps,

Frank

 

 

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EDIT:

Disregard....you already corrected yourself.

[martin-w 3,238]

I don't think you need to submit support ticket coz the FBW simulates correctly!

 

Please be aware that 777s system is different to Classic Boeing and Airbus.....

 

Trim for speed means the trim works while speed changed! When you change the conf, gears...target speed you need to trim it!

 

When you on vref with correct conf, you don't need to touch the trim! Or the reference speed will be changed ! To understand the logic, please forget what Airbus does first!

 

Hope this helps,

Frank

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

 

You obviously haven't been following this thread.

 

Trimming is very tricky for me, it shouldn't be.

[777simmer 117]

Me too, I've noticed that. Not easy to trim at all. As I've been saying all along.

 

I will probably submit a support ticket at this stage.

I guess trim button repeat rate did not fix your problem?

 

i assume you are going to adress both problems?

 

keep us informed please.

[martin-w 3,238]

Did you see my post on the flare Rob?

 

I've found zero flare required.

 

I expected at least a couple of degrees required.

 

This is at Vref, no +5. A/T on.

 

Most of the videos I watch, there's a reasonable flare.

[777simmer 117]

because sometimes I press it for one second and the aircraft will start pitching up, much more than 10 knots, which should about the correct rate as mentioned by real 777 Pilots, and it will almost stall in this condition. Then I start pressing Pitch DOwn Trim and nothing happens. I don't know if it's a controller issue, or what's wrong. I Have deleted my Fsuipc.ini to make sure I'm using only FSX controller interface for no interference with the PMDG simulation.

 

Let's wait to hear more about this subject

If you are on the ground and you want to change stabiliser trim, how does that work for you?

take a look at the flight controls synopsys page, it has a very precise Stab Trim indication on it.

On ground you are directly changing the stabiliser (not the reference trim speed)!

And that should work real smooth.

If I remember correctly (I can try again if need be) when I press the trim button for 2 seconds my stab trim indication changes from for instance 2.7 to 2.8 (approximately) on ground.

 

See if you get about the same.

Me too, I've noticed that. Not easy to trim at all. As I've been saying all along.

 

I will probably submit a support ticket at this stage.

Same question for you, see above.

[Alec 370]

777simmer

 

Yes, not only can I see the Trim changing in the FC Synopsys Page, I see the Button on the 3d Yoke Being Pressed when I do the same on my Joystick.

 

It takes less than one second to change on the ground from 2.8 to 2.7 here. About 3 to 4 seconds between 3.0 to 4.0

[Peter Clark 21]

 

 

Well, a Cessna does not have trim switches....soooo......yes the idea is the same as trimming a Cessna, but you dont have a trimwheel in your hand.

 

Well, to be pedantic, 172 and 182 models with the KAP140 autopilot or G1000 have electric trim and thus trim switches as well as the wheel. My 414 had electric trim...

[g_precentralis 191]

If I remember correctly (I can try again if need be) when I press the trim button for 2 seconds my stab trim indication changes from for instance 2.7 to 2.8 (approximately) on ground.

 

Measured it on ground. For 2sec I experience movement from 2.7 to 3.5

[777simmer 117]

777simmer

 

Yes, not only can I see the Trim changing in the FC Synopsys Page, I see the Button on the 3d Yoke Being Pressed when I do the same on my Joystick.

 

It takes less than one second to change on the ground from 2.8 to 2.7 here. About 3 to 4 seconds between 3.0 to 4.0

Ok, I will try again in a little bit at both values.

Did you see my post on the flare Rob?

 

I've found zero flare required.

 

I expected at least a couple of degrees required.

 

This is at Vref, no +5. A/T on.

 

Most of the videos I watch, there's a reasonable flare.

Yes I did actually, I am trying to read at 3 threads at the same time, sorry for the delay :-)

 

I will do a few more landings and let you know.

 

When you do not flare, at what v/s do you then touch down?

Oh and what about you stab trim indication (flight control synopsys) when you trim on the ground?

[777simmer 117]

Did you see my post on the flare Rob?

 

I've found zero flare required.

 

I expected at least a couple of degrees required.

 

This is at Vref, no +5. A/T on.

 

Most of the videos I watch, there's a reasonable flare.

Flare seems ok to me.

The 777 actually requires very little pitch change during the flare.

I still remeber my first rw 777 landing, I flared too much and ate up more runway than I should have.

It realy takes very little.

 

In real live you judge this be feel.

You learn after a couple of landings how much force you need to excersis to flare just right (not that it is always perfect....but you know....within parameters ;-) )

But in our sim without force feedback....all we can do is pull just a little bit and hope we got it right this time.

Or at least thats how I feel about it.

 

Just look at an autoland, from 1.5 pitch to about 4 degrees is all it needs.

When heavy (max landing mass) you will need slightly more.

 

I followed the GS with the PMDG at 750fpm and did nothing during the flare, it drove right into the ground with those 750fpm (as expected). I can tell you that is a pretty hard landing :-)

[martin-w 3,238]

I guess trim button repeat rate did not fix your problem?

 

i assume you are going to adress both problems?

 

keep us informed please.

I trim with the keyboard Rob, partly due to lack of joystick buttons, and partly from preference, so no repeat function available for keyboard. I did temporarily assign two buttons to trim, and I would say it was "somewhat" better, but still not right. As you said, trimming should be no different to any aircraft. It still wasn't.

 

Hopefully I'll be submitting a support ticket at the weekend.

 

I will address both issues, but for me, it's just basic trimming for speed that's the main issue.

Flare seems ok to me.

The 777 actually requires very little pitch change during the flare.

Thanks.

 

I'll check it out again later today.

 

What I noticed was with a mere two degrees flare, I floated and touched down so gentle there was zero sound from the gear, the ultimate greaser, which as you know isn't good landing technique. I'm surprised the speed brakes deployed it was so gentle.

[neas1982 42]

PMDG's silence on this matter is deafening. It would be nice to get an official statement on their thoughts about this.

[DescendDescend 25]

I am sure they will respond with a list of fixes and, where they don't agree, the reasons why. Their track record suggests nothing less. They just need time to develop and test the first SP. They always target the most accurate simulation they can achieve - its part of their reputation.

[raflucgr 2]

I think Alec submitted a support ticket about these trimming issues, so we will likely soon know what they have to say on that.