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liketofly1

PMDG BOEING 777/200LR Weights

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Dear Fellow 777/200LR Captains,

 

I took my baby to a weighbridge today to find out the "exact" wheight for calculations and CDU imputs. Here are the results:

 

DOW                                      344.224 lbs

ZFW                 max.                460.924 lbs

Max Taxi           max.                768.000 lbs      (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

MTOW             max.                766.000 lbs       (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

Max Landing    max.                492.000 lbs       (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

 

Fuel:                  max.             320.825 lbs

1AUX installed   max.              333.424 lbs

3AUX installed   max.              358.508 lbs

 

(DOW does not change with different installed options)

 

Bulk Cargo        max. input      13.500 lbs                 warning at       8.999 lbs

FWD Cargo       max. input      99.999 lbs                 warning at     67.499 lbs

AFT Cargo        max. input      73.500 lbs                 warning at     48.999 lbs

 

Passenger:      each    195 lbs (does not matter which category)

 

I hope to have helped some colegues with this info, which is useful for Addons like PFPX, TOPCAT, FSC and I'm shure a whole bunch of others.

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Thanks for the research.  I have edited my 777LR profile in PFPX to reflect the changes.

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Thanks a lot, I used some of your data in this post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420048-i-think-ive-got-the-cargo-loading-distribution-down-check-it-out/#entry2787780

 

But after looking at your numbers I found your max ZFW needs to be adjusted to 461068. I was gonna mention some of the weights you found and give you some credit because some of your finds influenced my formula, but I could not, for the life of me, refine your post. Anyway thanks!

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Hi bearcaat12;

 

 

Thanks a lot, I used some of your data in this post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420048-i-think-ive-got-the-cargo-loading-distribution-down-check-it-out/#entry2787780

But after looking at your numbers I found your max ZFW needs to be adjusted to 461068. I was gonna mention some of the weights you found and give you some credit because some of your finds influenced my formula, but I could not, for the life of me, refine your post. Anyway thanks!

 

How did you get ZFW 461.068 lbs?. When I tried to load my plane with that number I get invalid entry... 

the highest I could set was 460.924 lbs, and with 460.925 lbs the invalid entry starts...

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I can't remember exactly what I did and I shut my computer down for the night, but I will get back to you in the morning. All I know is I was able to figure it out ad my calculations with pfpx match the fmc Zfw. Ill get back to you

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Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX?

 

You can setup a airplane profile in PFPX but the pax weights are set in the options menu of the application itself. I know you can set a ZFW in the airplane and still match the weights given in PFPX, but why add 10 lbs?

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Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX?

 

Just guessing, though I believe I'm close enough:

It might be because long haul passengers are usually heavier than short haul ones.

They carry more hand baggage due to the flights being longer.

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Thanks alot for this post...

 

One questions though:

 

What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? 

 

P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused...

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Thanks alot for this post...

 

One questions though:

 

What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? 

 

P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused...

 

Hi,

 

First off.... I hope I'm not talking BS here. If so, please feel free to correct me.....

 

MTOW is actually an airline option in the RW. PMDG just simulates the (sort of) max max..... so normally MTOW with the RW airlines is a licenseing thing and might be lower.... (at least for the B737).

 

However, PMDG does not simulate a weight difference in these configurations.....

 

DOW for instance might be severly different in RW then in the PMDG planes, because of different seat/galley/fuel capacity etc. configurations in RW.....

 

and the pax/cargo capacities might between the 0/1/3 Aux configs do not necessarily need to change.... (you might loose cargo-space - but not weight) and i don't think that the empty tanks weigh as mouch as to really necessitate a weight change..... 

 

Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX?

 

You can setup a airplane profile in PFPX but the pax weights are set in the options menu of the application itself. I know you can set a ZFW in the airplane and still match the weights given in PFPX, but why add 10 lbs?

 

Just a little correction....

 

Pax weight in the NGX is 175 lbs not 185 lbs ;)

 

 

 

@bearcaat12

 

My weighbridge is not calculation, but FSFK which reports the weights directly from the sim.....

 

regards

Edited by liketofly1

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Thanks alot for this post...

 

One questions though:

 

What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? 

 

P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused...

 

 

They really shouldn't.  The difference is in the ability of the aircraft to carry additional fuel.  The one thing I did see that makes me scratch my head is if you add additional fuel tanks (aka weight) and your MTOW doesn't change, then the ZFW has to take a hit.  I don't see that above and I'm going to have to look into Boeing's dungeon to look up the different ZFW figures; because they can't all be the same.  My guess is that we would be restricted in the amount of cargo we can carry, but that's an educated guess.

 

More research to follow...

 

Kind regards,

Dave

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OK...I consulted the Boeing FPPM/FCOMs and the easy way (aka SWAG) is to take the MRWT (Max Ramp Wt) - FUEL CAPACITY = MZFW.  Since the weights mentioned above are maximum weights, e.g. all the 777-200LRs have the same MTOWs, and since the fuel capacity is greater in the 3-aux tank version, as I said before, the ZFW has to come down. 

 

So...

200LR - No aux tank -  768000 - 320825 = MZFW  447175 lbs

200LR - 1 aux tank      768000 - 333424 = MZFW  434576 lbs

200LR - 3 aux tank      768000 - 358508 = MZFW  407492 lbs

 

So I'm not entirely certain how you can come up with a MZFW of 460924 lbs...

 

Looking at a 200LR FCOM I have in KG, the 200LR with no aux tank has a ZFW of 460,033....so given that the ZFW mentioned in the OP is very close to the ZFW in the manual I have and the fuel capacity is 305354 lbs (converted from kg)...I think the fuel numbers are off...but again, this is a guess.  I'll have to look closer at the PMDG actual aircraft files.

 

The PMDG manual does not seem to state anything about 3 variants...am I missing something?

 

Dave

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They really shouldn't.  The difference is in the ability of the aircraft to carry additional fuel.  The one thing I did see that makes me scratch my head is if you add additional fuel tanks (aka weight) and your MTOW doesn't change, then the ZFW has to take a hit.  I don't see that above and I'm going to have to look into Boeing's dungeon to look up the different ZFW figures; because they can't all be the same.  My guess is that we would be restricted in the amount of cargo we can carry, but that's an educated guess.

 

More research to follow...

 

Kind regards,

Dave

 

@speedbird034

 

Your right, ZFW should change if I have additional fuel tanks installed.... and I'm pretty shure in RW it does... but as far as I could check, I loaded all three configs into the Sim and checked the ZFW with the CDU/max imput..... and it did not change.... The max was always 460.924 lbs - if you try to enter 460.925 lbs - you get the invalid entry error... and that did not change through the different (1/2/3 Aux Tanks) configs...

 

 

 

regards

Edited by liketofly1

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Actually, I didn't state my answer correctly.  If the ZFW increases and Fuel increases, then yes, MTOW would (theoretically) increase.  The problem here is that in all the documentation I've seen, the PMDG (and rw) 77Ls have a MRWG of 768000lbs/MTOW 766000lbs. These are the maximum structural weights for the aircraft, regardless of the ratio of fuel to ZFW.

 

After looking at the PMDG manual and the actual aircraft files, the base numbers listed in the OP are essentially correct.

If the MTOW (MRWG) doesn't change and the fuel capacity increases, then ZFW must decrease.  Pretty simple...

 

If you want the exact figures, then you have to pull them out of the aircraft.cfg file...then you can match it up in PFPX and you should be in good shape for planning purposes.

 

Dave

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200LR - No aux tank -  768000 - 320825 = MZFW  447175 lbs

200LR - 1 aux tank      768000 - 333424 = MZFW  434576 lbs

200LR - 3 aux tank      768000 - 358508 = MZFW  407492 lbs

 

You are confusing Maximum Zero Fuel Weight. In your calculations, these numbers are the maximum weight the airplane can have if you intend to fuel them to the max.

 

The 3-aux version of the plane can have ZFW more than 407492 lbs if you don't max out the fuel like you do in your calculations.

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Dear Fellow 777/200LR Captains,

 

I took my baby to a weighbridge today to find out the "exact" wheight for calculations and CDU imputs. Here are the results:

 

DOW 344.224 lbs

ZFW max. 460.924 lbs

Max Taxi max. 768.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

MTOW max. 766.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

Max Landing max. 492.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181)

 

Fuel: max. 320.825 lbs

1AUX installed max. 333.424 lbs

3AUX installed max. 358.508 lbs

 

(DOW does not change with different installed options)

 

Bulk Cargo max. input 13.500 lbs warning at 8.999 lbs

FWD Cargo max. input 99.999 lbs warning at 67.499 lbs

AFT Cargo max. input 73.500 lbs warning at 48.999 lbs

 

Passenger: each 195 lbs (does not matter which category)

 

I hope to have helped some colegues with this info, which is useful for Addons like PFPX, TOPCAT, FSC and I'm shure a whole bunch of others.

This is very useful. Thanks! Now I can stop using the ZFW workaround in the FMS.

 

Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX?

 

You can setup a airplane profile in PFPX but the pax weights are set in the options menu of the application itself. I know you can set a ZFW in the airplane and still match the weights given in PFPX, but why add 10 lbs?

 

 

It's quite simple. Rich people travel abroad more often than poor people. While abroad, rich people sit around and do nothing while eating yummy food. Hence rich people are fatter than poor people and, because they travel abroad more often, Boeing has assumed that 777 passengers will on average be fatter than 737 passengers. It's in the FCOM somewhere.

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Thank you Richard.....I was trying to find the DOW at manuals and couldn't find it......I was too shy to ask :) 

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You are welcome, with FSFK its actually quite ease to get the exact weights of the aircraft.......

 

regards

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How can I add the T7 profile to TOPCAT ?? if can help with a link I would be thankful :)

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Well, TOPCAT is a totally different thing, you will have to wait until Christian (TOPCAT Developer) will release the T7 Aircraft Files for TOPCAT.... and then you can use these weights (if there not in there already).....

 

regards

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Well, TOPCAT is a totally different thing, you will have to wait until Christian (TOPCAT Developer) will release the T7 Aircraft Files for TOPCAT.... and then you can use these weights (if there not in there already).....

 

regards

Many thanks 

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Bulk Cargo        max. input      13.500 lbs                 warning at       8.999 lbs

FWD Cargo       max. input      99.999 lbs                 warning at     67.499 lbs

AFT Cargo        max. input      73.500 lbs                 warning at     48.999 lbs

 

Passenger:      each    195 lbs (does not matter which category)

 

 

Are the weights mentioned above for the pax or freighter version? I am assuming in the PFPX under cargo capacity I should put the total of the weights above? And I am confused reading the thread, are the pax weight 195 or 185 on the 777?

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Are the weights mentioned above for the pax or freighter version? I am assuming in the PFPX under cargo capacity I should put the total of the weights above? And I am confused reading the thread, are the pax weight 195 or 185 on the 777?

 

Hi B777ER,

 

As mentioned above in my post.... its the 777-200LR (pax version).

 

I did not check about the 777-200since I normally don't fly it....

 

and Passenger weight in the 777-200LR is 195lbs each. (If you input x-number of pax via CDU). no matter in which "class" they are sitting. (sardienes class member weights are the same as business or first class weights).

 

regards

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