September 9, 201312 yr Dear Fellow 777/200LR Captains, I took my baby to a weighbridge today to find out the "exact" wheight for calculations and CDU imputs. Here are the results: DOW 344.224 lbs ZFW max. 460.924 lbs Max Taxi max. 768.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181) MTOW max. 766.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181) Max Landing max. 492.000 lbs (FCOMv1 Chapter L.10.2, Page 181) Fuel: max. 320.825 lbs 1AUX installed max. 333.424 lbs 3AUX installed max. 358.508 lbs (DOW does not change with different installed options) Bulk Cargo max. input 13.500 lbs warning at 8.999 lbs FWD Cargo max. input 99.999 lbs warning at 67.499 lbs AFT Cargo max. input 73.500 lbs warning at 48.999 lbs Passenger: each 195 lbs (does not matter which category) I hope to have helped some colegues with this info, which is useful for Addons like PFPX, TOPCAT, FSC and I'm shure a whole bunch of others. Just my 2 cent's ____________________________________________________Richard Oberwinkler
September 10, 201312 yr Thanks for the research. I have edited my 777LR profile in PFPX to reflect the changes. A.J. Domingo
September 10, 201312 yr Thanks a lot, I used some of your data in this post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420048-i-think-ive-got-the-cargo-loading-distribution-down-check-it-out/#entry2787780 But after looking at your numbers I found your max ZFW needs to be adjusted to 461068. I was gonna mention some of the weights you found and give you some credit because some of your finds influenced my formula, but I could not, for the life of me, refine your post. Anyway thanks! Nick Stoker
September 10, 201312 yr Author Hi bearcaat12; Thanks a lot, I used some of your data in this post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420048-i-think-ive-got-the-cargo-loading-distribution-down-check-it-out/#entry2787780But after looking at your numbers I found your max ZFW needs to be adjusted to 461068. I was gonna mention some of the weights you found and give you some credit because some of your finds influenced my formula, but I could not, for the life of me, refine your post. Anyway thanks! How did you get ZFW 461.068 lbs?. When I tried to load my plane with that number I get invalid entry... the highest I could set was 460.924 lbs, and with 460.925 lbs the invalid entry starts... Just my 2 cent's ____________________________________________________Richard Oberwinkler
September 10, 201312 yr I can't remember exactly what I did and I shut my computer down for the night, but I will get back to you in the morning. All I know is I was able to figure it out ad my calculations with pfpx match the fmc Zfw. Ill get back to you Nick Stoker
September 10, 201312 yr Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX? You can setup a airplane profile in PFPX but the pax weights are set in the options menu of the application itself. I know you can set a ZFW in the airplane and still match the weights given in PFPX, but why add 10 lbs? Greetings, Mike Henke
September 10, 201312 yr Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX? Just guessing, though I believe I'm close enough: It might be because long haul passengers are usually heavier than short haul ones. They carry more hand baggage due to the flights being longer. <p>Francesco
September 10, 201312 yr Thanks alot for this post... One questions though: What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused... Best regards,--Anders Bermann-- ____________________Scandinavian VAPilot-ID: SAS2471
September 10, 201312 yr Author Thanks alot for this post... One questions though: What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused... Hi, First off.... I hope I'm not talking BS here. If so, please feel free to correct me..... MTOW is actually an airline option in the RW. PMDG just simulates the (sort of) max max..... so normally MTOW with the RW airlines is a licenseing thing and might be lower.... (at least for the B737). However, PMDG does not simulate a weight difference in these configurations..... DOW for instance might be severly different in RW then in the PMDG planes, because of different seat/galley/fuel capacity etc. configurations in RW..... and the pax/cargo capacities might between the 0/1/3 Aux configs do not necessarily need to change.... (you might loose cargo-space - but not weight) and i don't think that the empty tanks weigh as mouch as to really necessitate a weight change..... Why is PMDG using 195 lbs for passengers in the 777 and 185 lbs for pax in the NGX? You can setup a airplane profile in PFPX but the pax weights are set in the options menu of the application itself. I know you can set a ZFW in the airplane and still match the weights given in PFPX, but why add 10 lbs? Just a little correction.... Pax weight in the NGX is 175 lbs not 185 lbs @bearcaat12 My weighbridge is not calculation, but FSFK which reports the weights directly from the sim..... regards Edited September 10, 201312 yr by liketofly1 Just my 2 cent's ____________________________________________________Richard Oberwinkler
September 10, 201312 yr Thanks alot for this post... One questions though: What are the pax/cargo capacities for the different AUX FUEL configurations? I mean - if the fuel capacity increases, and pax/cargo capacity remains the same? Shouldn't the MTOW increase then? P.s - I don't know the slightest bit about this - just a little confused... They really shouldn't. The difference is in the ability of the aircraft to carry additional fuel. The one thing I did see that makes me scratch my head is if you add additional fuel tanks (aka weight) and your MTOW doesn't change, then the ZFW has to take a hit. I don't see that above and I'm going to have to look into Boeing's dungeon to look up the different ZFW figures; because they can't all be the same. My guess is that we would be restricted in the amount of cargo we can carry, but that's an educated guess. More research to follow... Kind regards, Dave David L. Lamb FAA Certificated Aircraft Dispatcher -------------------
September 10, 201312 yr (physics ######)All of those are masses, not weights(/physics ######) Omar Josef 737/757/767
September 10, 201312 yr OK...I consulted the Boeing FPPM/FCOMs and the easy way (aka SWAG) is to take the MRWT (Max Ramp Wt) - FUEL CAPACITY = MZFW. Since the weights mentioned above are maximum weights, e.g. all the 777-200LRs have the same MTOWs, and since the fuel capacity is greater in the 3-aux tank version, as I said before, the ZFW has to come down. So... 200LR - No aux tank - 768000 - 320825 = MZFW 447175 lbs 200LR - 1 aux tank 768000 - 333424 = MZFW 434576 lbs 200LR - 3 aux tank 768000 - 358508 = MZFW 407492 lbs So I'm not entirely certain how you can come up with a MZFW of 460924 lbs... Looking at a 200LR FCOM I have in KG, the 200LR with no aux tank has a ZFW of 460,033....so given that the ZFW mentioned in the OP is very close to the ZFW in the manual I have and the fuel capacity is 305354 lbs (converted from kg)...I think the fuel numbers are off...but again, this is a guess. I'll have to look closer at the PMDG actual aircraft files. The PMDG manual does not seem to state anything about 3 variants...am I missing something? Dave David L. Lamb FAA Certificated Aircraft Dispatcher -------------------
September 10, 201312 yr Author They really shouldn't. The difference is in the ability of the aircraft to carry additional fuel. The one thing I did see that makes me scratch my head is if you add additional fuel tanks (aka weight) and your MTOW doesn't change, then the ZFW has to take a hit. I don't see that above and I'm going to have to look into Boeing's dungeon to look up the different ZFW figures; because they can't all be the same. My guess is that we would be restricted in the amount of cargo we can carry, but that's an educated guess. More research to follow... Kind regards, Dave @speedbird034 Your right, ZFW should change if I have additional fuel tanks installed.... and I'm pretty shure in RW it does... but as far as I could check, I loaded all three configs into the Sim and checked the ZFW with the CDU/max imput..... and it did not change.... The max was always 460.924 lbs - if you try to enter 460.925 lbs - you get the invalid entry error... and that did not change through the different (1/2/3 Aux Tanks) configs... regards Edited September 10, 201312 yr by liketofly1 Just my 2 cent's ____________________________________________________Richard Oberwinkler
September 10, 201312 yr Actually, I didn't state my answer correctly. If the ZFW increases and Fuel increases, then yes, MTOW would (theoretically) increase. The problem here is that in all the documentation I've seen, the PMDG (and rw) 77Ls have a MRWG of 768000lbs/MTOW 766000lbs. These are the maximum structural weights for the aircraft, regardless of the ratio of fuel to ZFW. After looking at the PMDG manual and the actual aircraft files, the base numbers listed in the OP are essentially correct. If the MTOW (MRWG) doesn't change and the fuel capacity increases, then ZFW must decrease. Pretty simple... If you want the exact figures, then you have to pull them out of the aircraft.cfg file...then you can match it up in PFPX and you should be in good shape for planning purposes. Dave David L. Lamb FAA Certificated Aircraft Dispatcher -------------------
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