While I understand you sentiment, your reasoning isn't exactly sound.  So many people claim the time/life issue when in reality you actually spend a lot more time asking a question and having to sort through all of the answers here than if you just searched the manual for your answer.

 

As someone with a full time job, two part time jobs and an on call job (no joke: contracting, real estate investment, design and software testing, respectively), I know the value of time management.  Saving time where I can is important for me.

 

You don't need to actually read the FCOM like a book.  For the casual simmer, it should be a little more like reference material.  If you get stuck, consult it by opening it and using CTRL+F.  You'll get the answer a lot faster that way than having to open a browser, come here, navigate to the proper subforum, type up your question, post it, and wait (and wade through all of the poor answers and commentary about how it's in the manual).

 

The benefits are twofold:

1 - You get the answer a lot faster, and likely in greater detail

2 - You get the original answer (if you've ever played "Telephone," you'll know why this is important, and you can definitely see its effects here in the forums)

 

The fact of the matter, though, is that you bought a study sim.  If you want to use its more complex functions, it's going to require a little work on your part.

actually, after all it is a forum and you were always available to give me references . so I only can thank you. as for the discussion better to close it since each and everyone of us has his different opinion.

 

I'll be counting on you in case I do have a question, cause you were really a big help in all topics

 

sincerely and + 1

PS: your videos are great

now back to T7

 

Remy

 

 

I'll be counting on you in case I do have a question, cause you were really a big help in all topics

 

Thanks!  Glad I can help (most of the time :ph34r: )

 

So let me get this straight....

 

You are not willing to do any work yourself on flying this plane and learning about it, but you come here asking for help on something you aren't willing to do the work on from others who have taken the time to look stuff up? That about right? I have zero sympathy for you. People here love to help other people but when you blatantly come out and say you refuse to read any documentation on your product, how can you expect any other reaction than what has been given to you.

 

You bought a high level simulation that requires a little bit of study, regardless of whether you are ever going to fly it or get a CPL. If you want something so basic as to not have to read a manual, then stick with the fsx default model. I know you think I'm being rude or hateful, but this is how life works. If you walk into school, college, or your own job saying I refused to do any reading on today's assignments because I don't have the time, but "hey you (who read the assignment), what is the answer?" Then you will be met with backlash. Don't be that guy.

So let me get this straight....

 

 

Me too..

 

are you human or you are a Robot like Robocop? We are People and we need to talk each other. I hate this anwser so much (read the manual). First i love it to get teach from a person not a manual, second i have a life, wife and a kid also a cat now. I sadly have not so much time to take a cool flight about 2h and reading for the same amount manuals. I read Manuals and stuff QRH but didnt have the time to get deeper.

 

This read the manual Robots are f**n the social spirit in our Flightsim Comunity up. This is the same like in the Aerosoft Forums, there is a same guy like here, and when a newebi came up with a question he get read the manual. Thank God there are a normal people like me and we can teach each other.

 

This Robots are the most Time online on the forum, same the one from aerosoft thy are from the staff and it look as there are realy good support guys but in real they ###### of peoples (customers).

 

And btw. the closing of the repaint thread is a atrocity towards the loves repainters. Its a shame. ADX need anew comic. With Robot-Clowns.

Me too..

 

are you human or you are a Robot like Robocop? We are People and we need to talk each other. I hate this anwser so much (read the manual). First i love it to get teach from a person not a manual, second i have a life, wife and a kid also a cat now. I sadly have not so much time to take a cool flight about 2h and reading for the same amount manuals. I read Manuals and stuff QRH but didnt have the time to get deeper.

 

This read the manual Robots are f**n the social spirit in our Flightsim Comunity up. This is the same like in the Aerosoft Forums, there is a same guy like here, and when a newebi came up with a question he get read the manual. Thank God there are a normal people like me and we can teach each other.

 

This Robots are the most Time online on the forum, same the one from aerosoft thy are from the staff and it look as there are realy good support guys but in real they ###### of peoples (customers).

 

And btw. the closing of the repaint thread is a atrocity towards the loves repainters. Its a shame. ADX need anew comic. With Robot-Clowns.

I'm not saying you have to read every last word...we all have lives and this is not how we make a living. What I am saying is, at least meet me half way. Don't come on here and say "I'm not going to read the manuals...but how does this work?" Are you kidding me? Are you honestly ok with people coming on here, not doing a lick of research and having people waste their time writing exactly what is in the manuals and not at all difficult to find. I'm just saying, show a little effort and people here will bend over backwards, but show up and admit to being lazy, then you will receive grief for it. This is not an unreasonable request.

are you human or you are a Robot like Robocop? We are People and we need to talk each other. I hate this anwser so much (read the manual). First i love it to get teach from a person not a manual, second i have a life, wife and a kid also a cat now. I sadly have not so much time to take a cool flight about 2h and reading for the same amount manuals. I read Manuals and stuff QRH but didnt have the time to get deeper.

 

The time issue is moot.  See above...

(also quoted below for convenience)

 

 

 

You don't need to actually read the FCOM like a book.  For the casual simmer, it should be a little more like reference material.  If you get stuck, consult it by opening it and using CTRL+F.  You'll get the answer a lot faster that way than having to open a browser, come here, navigate to the proper subforum, type up your question, post it, and wait (and wade through all of the poor answers and commentary about how it's in the manual).

 

The benefits are twofold:

1 - You get the answer a lot faster, and likely in greater detail

2 - You get the original answer (if you've ever played "Telephone," you'll know why this is important, and you can definitely see its effects here in the forums)

 

The fact of the matter, though, is that you bought a study sim.  If you want to use its more complex functions, it's going to require a little work on your part.

 

It may be a tough answer to take, but it's not that people don't want to answer questions.  It's that nobody ever learns the cooler functions if all of the teachers are held up answering the same elementary questions all day.

So let me get this straight....

 

You are not willing to do any work yourself on flying this plane and learning about it, but you come here asking for help on something you aren't willing to do the work on from others who have taken the time to look stuff up? That about right? I have zero sympathy for you. People here love to help other people but when you blatantly come out and say you refuse to read any documentation on your product, how can you expect any other reaction than what has been given to you.

 

You bought a high level simulation that requires a little bit of study, regardless of whether you are ever going to fly it or get a CPL. If you want something so basic as to not have to read a manual, then stick with the fsx default model. I know you think I'm being rude or hateful, but this is how life works. If you walk into school, college, or your own job saying I refused to do any reading on today's assignments because I don't have the time, but "hey you (who read the assignment), what is the answer?" Then you will be met with backlash. Don't be that guy.

Just FYI . I AM a Regional Manager for a company in the WHOLE MENA REGION AND DO HAVE 180 Employee in My Department. if you expect each and everyone of them to read manuals in order to do their job, well I believe no one would be working. that is why you have junior people, senior people, managers and so one. in case there's a problem you report to get help..... so  I don't need someone like you to teach me what to do or how to ask questions kiddow. I asked I question you are free to answer or not. and keep ure opinion for yourself. and if you think that this is complex , well you have lot of things to learn my friend in life. you DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT to talk that way to people in the forum. who the hell you think you are? you can learn for "kyle" how to respect people. but I doubt that you would learn that because respect is born with he person and not acquired. im really sorry for you.

I wouldn't expect staff to read every word of the company manuals, but I certainly would expect staff to be able to refer to them for guidance. Otherwise what are the manuals there for?

I wouldn't expect staff to read every word of the company manuals, but I certainly would expect staff to be able to refer to them for guidance. Otherwise what are the manuals there for?

 

To be the subject of contentious debates.  :lol:

(...in all seriousness, that's exactly what I was gonna say, but I've already typed it out, so I'll leave it below)

 

 

 

im really sorry for you.

 

For what it's worth, try not to undermine your own argument by doing what you're accusing someone else of.  I found it oddly ironic that "you do not have any right to talk that way to people in the forum?" was followed immediately by "who the [heck] do you think you are?"  This, all right after calling him "kiddo."  Name calling just brings the argument down to a low level, and, really, makes it all seem a little immature.

 

 

 

In any case...

 

This is a study sim.  There's an intro manual and I would not say that it's unreasonable to expect people to read that.  Expecting people to read the whole FCTM?  That's way above expectations unless someone wants to go get typed in it.  Consult it for answers before posting in the forum?  I expect that, but I'll still answer and just provide a reference to where they'd find it in the manual.  It's not unreasonable to ask people to do a little work on their own, to include some reading.  If that's too much, then there's really no point in buying a study sim.  There are other products out there that look pretty without all the extra work.

 

To be honest, think of it this way:

People can read here, or read the manual.  The only difference is that the forum takes longer while someone goes to find the information to hand it to the requester.  Additionally, the forum introduces inaccuracies the more the information is passed from person to person.  If it's explaining knowledge found in the manual, that's a completely different story.

Well is this not the same thing that happens with every PMDG or high end addon release? people hang around these forums day after day asking about release dates, will there be a 2D cockpit etc etc etc instead of reading the damn FCOM and learning something.

 

Surprise surprise, after release those same people come back asking basic questions and complain about not having time to read the FCOM.

 

Yes this should be a place for sharing knowledge! however, saying I don't have time to learn how to quickly check the FCOM or the supplied docs just doesn't cut it and sounds lazy.

 

Like many others I have a life, friends, family, work, a partner and a child. Instead of flying that 11 hour longhaul or 2 hour hop, teach yourself how to access the information you need

 

 

Instead of flying that 11 hour longhaul or 2 hour hop, teach yourself how to access the information you need

 

...or, heck, read it during the 11 hour long haul.

Just FYI . I AM a Regional Manager for a company in the WHOLE MENA REGION AND DO HAVE 180 Employee in My Department. if you expect each and everyone of them to read manuals in order to do their job, well I believe no one would be working. that is why you have junior people, senior people, managers and so one. in case there's a problem you report to get help..... so I don't need someone like you to teach me what to do or how to ask questions kiddow. I asked I question you are free to answer or not. and keep ure opinion for yourself. and if you think that this is complex , well you have lot of things to learn my friend in life. you DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT to talk that way to people in the forum. who the hell you think you are? you can learn for "kyle" how to respect people. but I doubt that you would learn that because respect is born with he person and not acquired. im really sorry for you.

You must not be a very good "manager" if you throw a teenage temper tantrum like that every time someone calls you out. An FYI, yes, for your job you are required to read and know all of your manuals. Being a 121 pilot myself, I can assure you that claiming you didn't read your manuals and that is what senior people and managers are there for does not fly with the FAA. Do you seriously allow your employees to run wild without knowing their manuals for whatever it is they are doing? OSHA most certainly does not put up with that. Again, your tantrum you threw along with your very unprofessional view of company materiel and procedures further shines light on what it is you really do.

 

Back to the topic at hand...I am not chastising people who ask questions . I'm happy to help but if you show up and ask trivial questions without doing the most basic of research and then admit to not doing the most basic of research and want people to spell it out for you, then that is what will get you jumped on. Don't put words in my mouth... I'm very clear as to what I have a problem with and the above posts can attest to that.

...or, heck, read it during the 11 hour long haul.

11 what? do you think that I have time for an 11 hour long haul. a two hours flight and I use acceleration, I wish I had that time to spend on Sim., unfortunately I do have a social life , wife, kids and job.......  

PS: Kyle I'm on your side

Well is this not the same thing that happens with every PMDG or high end addon release? people hang around these forums day after day asking about release dates, will there be a 2D cockpit etc etc etc instead of reading the damn FCOM and learning something.

 

Surprise surprise, after release those same people come back asking basic questions and complain about not having time to read the FCOM.

 

Not actually possible to do that unless you bought the hard copy set. Shame really, as you say it would be a good time to study the systems. However, very frustrating not to be able to see them all working until product release. The other issue to consider is those who don't have English as their first language. That makes reading a technical manual in English rather hard.

 

My sympathies are on both sides. I can't see the point in someone replying to a polite question with an abrupt "Read the Manual". Why bother posting in a thread at all if that's all you can say? If someone doesn't understand something, the forum is the place for an explanation of the detail. But there are limits, people should not expect others to read the manual on for them.

You must not be a very good "manager" if you throw a teenage temper tantrum like that every time someone calls you out. An FYI, yes, for your job you are required to read and know all of your manuals. Being a 121 pilot myself, I can assure you that claiming you didn't read your manuals and that is what senior people and managers are there for does not fly with the FAA. Do you seriously allow your employees to run wild without knowing their manuals for whatever it is they are doing? OSHA most certainly does not put up with that. Again, your tantrum you threw along with your very unprofessional view of company materiel and procedures further shines light on what it is you really do.

 

 

 yes what a failure I am. I wonder how I got this position and you know we're making money because we're unprofessional. anyhow for you being a pilot how long do you have to study? 6 month, 1 year. and for sure no teachers or simulators or procedures, just by yourself, u never asked any question loool... come on guys . we're asking about dumping fuel and now the forum Is a debate. honestly from all of this I only needed an answer. and got it thank you.

Not actually possible to do that unless you bought the hard copy set. Shame really, as you say it would be a good time to study the systems. However, very frustrating not to be able to see them all working until product release. The other issue to consider is those who don't have English as their first language. That makes reading a technical manual in English rather hard.

 

My sympathies are on both sides. I can't see the point in someone replying to a polite question with an abrupt "Read the Manual". Why bother posting in a thread at all if that's all you can say? If someone doesn't understand something, the forum is the place for an explanation of the detail. But there are limits, people should not expect others to read the manual on for them.

Exactly +1, this is what the forums are about. to get straight answers to their question. and no one is forced to answer your question, he can just disregard it instead of giving lessons and advices about manual and ....