11 what? do you think that I have time for an 11 hour long haul. a two hours flight and I use acceleration, I wish I had that time to spend on Sim., unfortunately I do have a social life , wife, kids and job.......  

 

I was just tacking on to Rob's generic mention of an 11 hour long haul.  Note my post's lack of the use of references to anyone directly.

 

And just because I can fit in the occasional long haul: http://www.vataware.com/flight.cfm?id=12322965.

...doesn't mean I lack a social life and I'm a shut-in: http://www.strava.com/activities/87632434

 

I hate that assertion that simming = no life.

 

 

 

PS: Kyle I'm on your side

 

Wasn't saying that you're not.  I'm just trying to temper the argument that reading the manuals is too much.

I was just tacking on to Rob's generic mention of an 11 hour long haul.  Note my post's lack of the use of references to anyone directly.

 

And just because I can fit in the occasional long haul: http://www.vataware.com/flight.cfm?id=12322965.

...doesn't mean I lack a social life and I'm a shut-in: http://www.strava.com/activities/87632434

 

I hate that assertion that simming = no life.

 

 

 

 

Wasn't saying that you're not.  I'm just trying to temper the argument that reading the manuals is too much.

Kyle, I am not the topic starter, there was a question stating the following: where do I find the fuel dump buttons ?????? and no one commented

 

all I asked was:

Remys, on 10 Oct 2013 - 2:47 PM, said:

lets say I have the dump X kg how to proceed?

 

It's actually a lot simpler, and if you follow the ECL (in the non-normal checklist section), it'll answer all the questions you might have.

 

If you prefer, it's in the QRH on page 12.14

 

and this answered my question,

 

I don't know how this turned into this long argument, which will lead to nowhere.

in all cases I found the answer in the fuel section of AOA 777 training (the video)

 

and kyle thanks I used also the ECL and checked the QRH 12.4 (but wasn't clear for me)

 

can we please stop arguing ???????

Not actually possible to do that unless you bought the hard copy set. Shame really, as you say it would be a good time to study the systems. However, very frustrating not to be able to see them all working until product release. The other issue to consider is those who don't have English as their first language. That makes reading a technical manual in English rather hard.

 

My sympathies are on both sides. I can't see the point in someone replying to a polite question with an abrupt "Read the Manual". Why bother posting in a thread at all if that's all you can say? If someone doesn't understand something, the forum is the place for an explanation of the detail. But there are limits, people should not expect others to read the manual on for them.

We have all been providing links to study material for the 777 for years, a wealth of easily accessible information exists online. Only limitations is for those of us that want to provide company specific information but are not allowed for obvious reasons.

 

I am sorry but I don't buy the English barrier thing, we are not talking about reading the complete works of Shakespeare along with a deep analysis.

 

RTFM although abrasive came into existence on the web for a good reason, people jump in at the deep end, want to skip the basics and expect others to do the ground work. I don't believe anyone here is against helping people, I love sharing knowledge and learning new things myself.

 

The bottom line is this, users that do take the time out of a busy schedule to learn become frustrated because many questions can be easily answered from a 5 minute check of the docs. We all know this is a study sim, key word 'study' Nobody is asking the average person to go on a type rating course but please at least learn how to use the documents supplied.

 

Rant over, enjoy your weekend

We have all been providing links to study material for the 777 for years, a wealth of easily accessible information exists online. Only limitations is for those of us that want to provide company specific information but are not allowed for obvious reasons.

Have we? Not here I hope, don't think Tom would be too pleased.  I don't think the restriction is just on company specific information either. Yes of course the information is out there, but the sharing of it isn't legit.

 

I am sorry but I don't buy the English barrier thing, we are not talking about reading the complete works of Shakespeare along with a deep analysis.

You make it sound like an excuse. Technical English is certainly not easy, the words used can be quite obscure and don't translate well. Or so I have been told by forum members struggling with English trying to be understood on these forums and using google translate to get by. I tend to believe it when they say it's a problem for them. I also know this from personal experience trying to read technical reports written in French. I speak French (badly), but not technical French. Even online translation struggles to cope.

 

RTFM although abrasive came into existence on the web for a good reason, people jump in at the deep end, want to skip the basics and expect others to do the ground work. I don't believe anyone here is against helping people, I love sharing knowledge and learning new things myself.

 

The bottom line is this, users that do take the time out of a busy schedule to learn become frustrated because many questions can be easily answered from a 5 minute check of the docs. We all know this is a study sim, key word 'study' Nobody is asking the average person to go on a type rating course but please at least learn how to use the documents supplied.

Maybe I've got more patience than you. I don't find it frustrating answering questions, I enjoy it. That's the main reason why I participate in these forums. I've had a lot of experience in aviation and I'm happy to share that with people here. Aircraft systems are second nature to me but I realise that for some the learning curve is much steeper. I know where to start in the sim, as you probably do, even without reading a manual, they don't.

 

The second most useless in the PMDG forum is "Read the Manual". It's a complete waste of a post just to say this. Yes I know it's a so-called "study sim" but some people are scared off by the idea because they think they have to read the whole manual to even start using the sim. They'll be even more scared off by an RTFM response.

Rant over, enjoy your weekend

Likewise. B)

 

 

Exactly +1, this is what the forums are about. to get straight answers to their question. and no one is forced to answer your question, he can just disregard it instead of giving lessons and advices about manual and ....

 

Yes, but as I said there are limits. The manual is a good place to start, if you still don't understand then ask in the forum.

Back from a night out and definitely time for bed! however, same old links that we always provide, no need to provide links to illegal copies of FCTM's or FCOM's
 
http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/over/fuel.html
 

http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B777.html   unfortunate link title!
 
Still don't completely agree with you on the language barrier, we are in 2013, google translate and a huge amount of free software exists for anyone that is not a native English speaker,  I get plenty of FS tech support emails and carry out team viewer sessions with customers in Various European, Far east & South American languages.
 
Anyway, I am pretty much in agreement with you. I never said it was acceptable to simply type 'RTFM noob' and provide zero assistance.  You are correct though, I have much less patience nowadays, hence why I don't normally post in threads like these.
 
99% of time Kyle get's it right with his posts, provide the FCOM reference, teach people how to use the docs effectively, as you say, no need to read 600+ pages in one go.
 
My post above was not aimed at people trying to obtain a deeper insight into the more complex aspects of these machines, more those that type, 'How do I silence the A/P'  'Where is the fuel dump' etc

 

 

I have much less patience nowadays, hence why I don't normally post in threads like these.

 

Rob,

         You were the tech guru for Airsimmer for a number of years. If that doesn't teach you patience, I don't know what will. :rolleyes:

Back from a night out and definitely time for bed! however, same old links that we always provide, no need to provide links to illegal copies of FCTM's or FCOM's

 

http://www.meriweather.com/flightdeck/777/over/fuel.html

 

http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/BOEING/B777.html unfortunate link title!

 

Still don't completely agree with you on the language barrier, we are in 2013, google translate and a huge amount of free software exists for anyone that is not a native English speaker, I get plenty of FS tech support emails and carry out team viewer sessions with customers in Various European, Far east & South American languages.

 

Smartcockpit is very good. I wouldn't regard Merrieweather as being definitive.

 

As for language issues, imagine the problem a non English speaker faces. They can't translate the whole manual, and probably won't know what text to search for. Even if they do choose a good search term, they would have to translate every matching result. An English speaker can quickly read and discard unhelpful matches. That makes the manual much harder to use if you don't read English.

 

However online translation does give them the ability to put a question in English in the forum and understand the answer.

--Deleted--

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

 

Nice Shots

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

They can't translate the whole manual, and probably won't know what text to search for. Even if they do choose a good search term, they would have to translate every matching result. An English speaker can quickly read and discard unhelpful matches. That makes the manual much harder to use if you don't read English.

 

Reminds me of project Tupolev, if they didn't offer an English manual I would have had to resort to learning how to operate the thing by trial and error.