Complainers will outpost those who are pleased 10-1. Those on the other thread, who are probably the type who yell at waiters, are not just a minority, but a very small minority. Further, how does someone have the audacity to suggest to a developer what they should charge because it's what they can afford? Hey Harley Davidson, can ya drop the price of that DynaGlide for me. Pathetic. Flight simming can be a very expensive hobby, if you don't want to step up, go back to your XBOX!

 

 

I think it is a good thing that potential purchasers or people who have already bought a product, ask lots of questions and also voice their honest concerns and opinions to a developer, although hopefully in a polite way.  As a potential buyer I want to know what I'll be getting for the purchase price, and threads that contain nothing but universal praise are of very little help.  It's good to hear both the pro and the con.  If you don't have that, then what is the purpose of this forum, and others like it? 

 

The idea that Flight Simming is expensive and if you don't like it go back to XBOX is an argument I very much disagree with.  Yes, it can be an expensive hobby, just like anything else,but smart people don't just throw money at something without considering it's overall value to the experience they are trying to achieve.   

The tone of the other thread was not "honest concerns and opinions." Further, the price was announced, and the developer was attacked by mean spirited spoiled brats. The purpose of these forums is not to argue with a developer over their pricing strategy and the legal nuances that led to that particular pricing paradigm. It doesn't sound like you read the whole thread, I did, it was disgusting. And, duh, everyone considers the price of something before they buy it.

Some customers don't interact well with developers.

 

Some developers don't interact well with customers.

 

The last thread was a pretty good example of that.

 

Whilst I agree that one person in particular was out of line in the last thread, others were expressing genuine and legitimate concerns which were not adequately addressed by the developer and it took far too long for potential customers to get the full picture of what was on offer and at what price.

 

 

Flight simming can be a very expensive hobby, if you don't want to step up, go back to your XBOX!

 

That's exactly the kind of elitist attitude this hobby can do without.

That's exactly the kind of elitist attitude this hobby can do without.

Just how is it "elitist" to prefer that a free market dictate prices, not whiners who complain before the product is even released? If the developer's bottom line warrants it, they will make adjustments. This is how it's done in the USA!

 

Mindstar Developers, I'm so glad this product is coming, I can't wait to use it in the A2A 172 on P3D and I look forward to your continued involvement in this product and in the simmer community!

Let's please not let this topic/thread get out of hand too... just saying... :ph34r:

Just how is it "elitist"

 

You said anyone who couldn't afford the same things you can should go back to their Xbox. If you can't see how that attitude is not only elitist and condescending then I don't think anything I'm going to say is going to convince you otherwise.

 

As I said, legitimate questions and concerns were raised in the original thread - and yes one individual did indeed step over the line. Unfortunately those questions and concerns weren't dealt with in the best manner. In fact I'd say that whole thread was very unfortunate in the way it was apparently started by a beta tester (if that's what the OP was?) without sanction from the developers. The way information about the product came to light was very fragmented and less than ideal.

 

Just as you're free to welcome this product with open arms, others are free to voice their disapproval about the choice of navdata and pricing. I believe that is - as you say - how it's done in the USA!

 

 

Let's please not let this topic/thread get out of hand too... just saying...  :ph34r:

 

Absolutely. You won't have any trouble from me.

The comment about the "XBOX" was me venting my frustration over a few individuals who nearly caused the developer to cancel it's release, forgive me, I'm human. It was meant to be metaphorical, not literal. My message however remains unchanged.

Just as you're free to welcome this product with open arms, others are free to voice their disapproval about the choice of navdata and pricing. I believe that is - as you say - how it's done in the USA!

You are making my point for me, since when do consumers feel the need to complain directly to manufacturers via prose BEFORE their product has even been released? This is the very reason the product was almost cancelled. Thanks. Vote with your wallet. I'm officially off this topic! Someone else can argue with you.

 

 

Someone else can argue with you.

 

I'm not arguing, far from it. I'm all up for a robust discussion - something I believe fora are all about. I even promise I won't take a parting shot before officially leaving.

 

 

 

since when do consumers feel the need to complain directly to manufacturers via prose BEFORE their product has even been released?

 

Given your remarks about the Xbox earlier, perhaps you might want to have a read up on what happened with the Xbox One earlier this year. Such was the level of disconent and complaint over some of the features Microsoft were forced to go back and revise their plans. The complaints from consumers about a yet to be released product resulted in a product which the consumer will have greater freedom and flexibility to use.

 

Which brings me back to the original topic - over the course of the last thread the steady drip drip of information which had to be coaxed out of Ed Wilson slowly revealed that the $50 GPS addon wasn't quite the complete picture. If the customer wants updated navdata they must purchase an annual subscription to a proprietary navdata service (strangely enough registered to the same address as the developer of the GPS addon). When asked why we couldn't just use an existing and established navdata source like Navigraph or Navdatapro we were told these data sets were missing too many approached and airport information to be of use for the product. When pushed further to explain what navdata the GPS will actually come with for $50 we were told it will use the default FSX/P3D navdata. In this case then why not give customers the choice of using Navigraph or Navdatapro data as well? What's more the question was asked over on the Aerosoft forum as to the completeness of their Navdatapro data sets and Mathijs Kok stated the Aerosoft data was complete and all the data is there for developers to tap into as they require.

 

The original thread probably shouldn't have happened. However, it did and what we got was several pages of fragmentary, sometimes contradictory information released in a piecemeal fashion. I am all up for a new GNS that can be used in FSX and P3D as we know the RXP units are no longer supported. If Mindstar want me to subscribe to an affiliated navdata service owned by the same people then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It certainly didn't need the degree of obfuscation that went on and shouldn't have taken so long and so many posts to come to light that the $50 GNS will actually cost you $90 if you want to have an up to date navdata set, and $40 per year thereafter.

 

I'm very interested in buying the Mindstar GNS, but not if they want to limit me to another navdata subscription for $40 per year when I already have a subscription elsewhere which provides the navdata for all my other addons. As a potential customer I'm saying to Mindstar give me the option of using the navdata I already use and I'll buy. Otherwise I'll pass.

 

Now that's exactly the kind of consumer feedback that just about any company that wants to sell me a product would be interested in hearing. The notion that we should all just shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves just because you are happy with the arrangement Mindstar proposes is quite ridiculous - especially if as I suspect, shutting out Navigraph and Navdatapro will actually end up costing Mindstar sales.

 

If Mindstar decide to take their ball and go home after criticism in one thread then that's unfortunate. If anything else it underlines the fact we are not their core market and that maybe, just maybe, they need to adjust their strategy if they want to capture more sales in this market.

It indeed sounds like you may not be the target buyer that Mindstar is aiming at..

 

The way I see it, is that they have a professional product that they are looking at making available to

an enthusiast market - on their terms.  Not dissimilar to LM and P3D.

 

So, either you buy and install what they offer, and enjoy a quality product.. or you decide it is not for you.

 

Nowhere do I see their intent to sell to a "Consumer Market" :unsure:

 

Remember, the RXP 430 and 530 gauges cost $50 each, plus $100 for the Unlimited pack... so $200 for the whole

set - and you cannot update the Navdata..

 

Maybe Mindstar is not such a bad deal at $90.

If Mindstar decide to take their ball and go home after criticism in one thread then that's unfortunate. If anything else it underlines the fact we are not their core market and that maybe, just maybe, they need to adjust their strategy if they want to capture more sales in this market.

After my first read of your post, I initially decided to "hide" it (we never delete posts) because quite frankly it has the very same "scolding tone" that came about in the original thread.

 

However, after re-reading it several times I changed my mind and "un-hid" it. I hope I don't wind up regretting my decision.

 

I've quoted only your last paragraph because it does -in fact- summarize the situation cogently. "We" are not their target market. They (Mindstar) don't need us; we need them if we wish to have professional grade Garmin units in Prepar3D (and as a serendipitous bonus) in FSX.

 

Since there appears to be nothing further to discuss, this thread has outlived any utility.