Just a note before all the ruckus starts HERE regarding Vector

[machine2035 176]

Comparing yourself to Apple now? Your ever-endearing self-confidence is going super-nova recently isn't it!

 

Well one thing you didn't see after the initial release of Apple maps was Tim Cook piping up on the Apple forums about how some of his customers had been too spoiled by all the wonderful products Apple had made previously.

 

Neither did he brush aside legitimate criticisms about the marketing of the product with a 'FFS, all you guys need to do is invest a bit more money / time'.

 

Nor could Tim Cook be heard saying the critics were just a "######ing and moaning" minority compared to the millions of happy Apple customers, and that he was tiring of their "BS".

 

No, Tim Cook acknowledged the shortcomings and very publicly apologised, and his product was free:

 

http://www.apple.com/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/

I lurrrrve this post!

 

Made the first day of 2014 that much better..

[jaydor 233]

ORBX changed the flight simming world for the better and has continued to bring us superb products and when fault is found it is rectified.  Orbx is not just a one man band, it is made up of a very talented group of people who have been in the flight sim and other sim world's for many years.  ORBX greatly increased my enjoyment of flight simming.  I will continue to support ORBX as I like the product and if I was rich enough I would buy the company, like the shaver man did..  :lol:  :lol:

 

Support Ron Attwood, he seems like a nice guy.. :biggrin:

[Ron Attwood 3,468]

 

 

Support Ron Attwood, he seems like a nice guy.. :biggrin:

 

It's a front mate, ask my wife! Thank you though. :biggrin:

There are still some who want to keep the 'ball' in play I see.  :rolleyes: 

[Paul K 1,348]

Don't understand what the fuss is, Orbx release a product, issues get found and then they fix with service packs as always. What should they do, wear sack cloth whilst doing so?

You have missed the point - or at least, you have missed mine. Its not the faults with the product that are at issue here - its the reaction from Orbx to those who made a complaint about those faults in the first place. I understand that there will always be glitches with such software, and thats what service packs and patches are for. What I found intolerable was the very rude response. People can seek to wash over it, or excuse it, or grant it virtue in retrospect all they wish - to me, as a paying customer, it was completely unacceptable.

[Ron Attwood 3,468]

And we all feel your pain mate.  :(   Breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth several times. You'll live longer and JV still won't give a toss.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

I also love how he said that we likely spend $1k-3k on add-ons each year. This clearly shows otherwise:

 

[EngineRoom 205]

How many Orbx bashing threads have been closed in the last few days? Yet we've still got people stuck on transmit banging the same old drum.

 

It's almost enough to make me feel sorry for the Avsim mods.

 

Almost   

[Andrewk737 5]

Couldn't agree more. That is no way to treat paying customers. Since he gets the money, he has to put up with their "BS" and actually listen to complaints instead of calling them "product design choices".

In truth there are just some customers business owners don't actually want; but neither do we discriminate, thus everyone gets a choice - lump them or dump them!

 

Happy new year :-)

[chelmo 42]

How many Orbx bashing threads have been closed in the last few days? Yet we've still got people stuck on transmit banging the same old drum.

 

It's almost enough to make me feel sorry for the Avsim mods.

 

Almost   

 

I wouldn't say it is Orbx bashing as such. I think most people, me included, think their products are superb and wouldn't look anywhere else so far as scenery is concerned.

 

But that doesn't excuse the head of the company spouting off the way he did. Or is it designed to deflect attention away from the possibility that despite the volume of sales the partnership with Pilot's seems to have got off to a less than auspicious start?

[EngineRoom 205]

But as Ron says, the same people have been banging the same drum for about two years now. JV hasn't changed because he doesn't give a toss, and Orbx haven't crashed and burned because all their customers left them in disgust.

 

Is it really so hard to just enjoy the hobby we are all supposed to be here to share our interest and enthusiasm in - instead of trying to poison the Orbx well for everybody else?

[JRBarrett 3,095]

You have missed the point - or at least, you have missed mine. Its not the faults with the product that are at issue here - its the reaction from Orbx to those who made a complaint about those faults in the first place. I understand that there will always be glitches with such software, and thats what service packs and patches are for. What I found intolerable was the very rude response.

I understand your point, but I don't think that JV was lashing out at EVERY customer, nor attacking EVERY individual who found faults with the software. At least some "paying customers" were, themselves, going way beyond what I would consider reasonable and acceptable behavior in the tone and style their complaints and criticisms.

 

I am referring to those who were leveling charges that ORBX was illegally misusing OSM data in a commercial product, or that ORBX and PILOTS were engaged in some sort of nefarious grand conspiracy to force purchasers of Vector to buy a specific additional product, that they did not need or want. Many of these "charges" were made in an extremely belligerant tone, right from the very first post by those complaining.

 

I think that it was THESE kind of reactions that pushed all the wrong buttons with JV, and led him to lash out in a manner that indeed, may have seemed directed at ANY Vector customer with issues, though I don 't think he intended it that way. Having a "short fuse" is one of JV's traits, and though I'm not making excuses for it, neither can I say that his reaction was totally without provocation in this particular instance.

 

Anyone who has paid for a product or service certainly has the right to expect that shortcomings in said product will be addressed by the seller. However, being a "paying customer" doesn't give someone the right to treat the seller with overt contempt and disrespect, while expecting courtesy and respect in return.

 

At the present time, ORBX and PILOTS are actively soliciting feedback from customers regarding flaws and errors in the Vector product, and those who make such reports in a respectful and non-confrontational manner are being given every due consideration, and thanked for their inputs.

 

I would agree that the product sales page should have had a note mentioning that Vector, as a high-resolution supplement to the FSX/P3D scenery system, would greatly benefit by the addition of terrain mesh of higher resolution than FSX default - it probably would have made the introduction of the product less... "stressful". But that does not excuse the manner in which at least some "paying customers" reacted.

[Azone 39]

Has there been any other Orbx product that has garnered 9 pages of a support thread in just the first 5 days? Peopled have paid full price to be part of the beta team.

 

FTXG was a world wide product and they never had  as many issues.

 

  Vector was NOT ready for prime time....and I'll bet money Orbx relied too much on Pilots to get it ready and now they have to deal with the backlash.

[Spike54 34]

Couldn't agree more. That is no way to treat paying customers. Since he gets the money, he has to put up with their "BS" and actually listen to complaints instead of calling them "product design choices".

 

He doesn't actually "have" to do anything. Who are you to say that he does?

 

I'm fairly new to the Avsim forum, but having seen the amount of manure being spread throughout some Avsim threads about ORBX, always seemingly by the same "farmers", I'm really not surprised JV called it BS. Or do you think for the sake of "customer relations" he should just keep bending over and taking it?

 

If you don't like his straight talking, the answer's really simple, don't give him your money.

 

Out of curiosity do either you or Scotchegg actually own an Orbx product?

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Anyone who has paid for a product or service certainly has the right to expect that shortcomings in said product will be addressed by the seller. However, being a "paying customer" doesn't give someone the right to treat the seller with overt contempt and disrespect, while expecting courtesy and respect in return.

 

At the present time, ORBX and PILOTS are actively soliciting feedback from customers regarding flaws and errors in the Vector product, and those who make such reports in a respectful and non-confrontational manner are being given every due consideration, and thanked for their inputs.

 

I would agree that the product sales page should have had a note mentioning that Vector, as a high-resolution supplement to the FSX/P3D scenery system, would greatly benefit by the addition of terrain mesh of higher resolution than FSX default - it probably would have made the introduction of the product less... "stressful". But that does not excuse the manner in which at least some "paying customers" reacted.

 

The seller got treated like that because they made the mistake that you mentioned in the last paragraph; there was nowhere in the product/sale page a notice saying that without accurate mesh you're going to have issues. You had to read the forum regularly to know of that. Lots of people got surprised that they needed another add-on to fix the issues after buying an already expensive add-on, and then JV goes on accusing us that we spend $1k-3k on add-ons each year (which is not true at all) and that we are too spoilt by FTX regions (maybe he's too spoilt from the money he has earned over the years, no doubt that Orbx products have been selling really good). I don't think the customers are at any fault.

 

And also I can't see where JV is considering all logical requests. A configuration tool? "Never going to happen". Thinner roads? "I disagree". Only Bernd from PILOT'S is trying to fix issues (and he's doing a great work), but JV? Not at all.

[chelmo 42]

The seller got treated like that because they made the mistake that you mentioned in the last paragraph; there was nowhere in the product/sale page a notice saying that without accurate mesh you're going to have issues. You had to read the forum regularly to know of that. Lots of people got surprised that they needed another add-on to fix the issues after buying an already expensive add-on, and then JV goes on accusing us that we spend $1k-3k on add-ons each year (which is not true at all) and that we are too spoilt by FTX regions (maybe he's too spoilt from the money he has earned over the years, no doubt that Orbx products have been selling really good). I don't think the customers are at any fault.

 

And also I can't see where JV is considering all logical requests. A configuration tool? "Never going to happen". Thinner roads? "I disagree". Only Bernd from PILOT'S is trying to fix issues (and he's doing a great work), but JV? Not at all.

 

I made the point on another thread (locked!) that Orbx could produce a xxxxx and it would sell. And this is half the problem; their (deserved) success means that some people will simply buy anything from them on day one with absolutely zero knowledge of whether it is suitable for them or not.

 

When Vector was first announced back in September JV said there would be no configuration tool. So I decided straight away I didn't want it; I'd stick with UTX. He also said that detailed mesh wouldn't be necessary but nonetheless would be an advantage and quite frankly I cannot see why people complain about this; not having proper mesh is rather like trying to run a Ferrari on a Mini's tyres. So I'm afraid I have no sympathy with people who are now complaining about these things....you don't spend £50 plus on software without checking first to make sure it is fit for your purpose.

 

So in these respects I fully support JV but I do take issue with the way he dealt with them. And quite clearly Vector was issued far, far too soon.