Time to develop for a new sim me thinks?

[mgh 89]

But my point is that neither Northrup Grumman nor Boeing are designing and selling P3D to flight-simmers and the military, but L.M is.

But Boeing are designing and selling aircraft to flight simulators. Do you also refuse to fly on Boeing aircraft?

[TooWings 17]

But Boeing are designing and selling aircraft to flight simulators. Do you also refuse to fly on Boeing aircraft?

 

Again I think you've missed my main point.  L.M are funding and selling P3D, a flight  simulator that is used for military purposes etc. Thats why I personally dont want anything to do with P3D and I'm happy that at least some in the FS community share my views and are avoiding getting involved...

 

You say ....

'Boeing are designing and selling aircraft to flight simulators'.

Really? Did they actually design 747's for FS9 and FSX etc?

Or are these mere virtual models of the real 747?.

 

So who is the one to really be blamed for civilian deaths?

Lockheed Martin for supplying these military systems?

The people fighting with those just because they are told to do so?

The government for sending soldiers to fight somewhere?

I really can't put any blame on the supplier here..

 

But its not about blaming anyone.  Its just simple cause and effect.   The many investors worldwide who now invest in 'ethical companies' do so because they dont wish to give their money to feed vicious destructive circles such as tobacco/addiction/cancer, or arms/drones/civilian deaths. etc.

 

These investors dont tend to analyse who's fault it is that millions die every year from smoking, or that tens of thousands die from landmines, cluster bombs and drone attacks etc. But rather they choose not to feed the destructive circle that is arms manufacturing etc,  i.e. they avoid putting their money and time into arms companies such as Lockheed Martin.

 

This is why, after nearly 15 years as a flightsimmer,  I'm sad to see the community getting so involved with Lockheed.Martin to the extent of buying and supporting their P3D simulator...which is also sold to the military in various countries.

 

As Noel said earlier on this thread....

 

'(This) is something I think about too--I'd rather P3D V2 was being developed by a different type of company' (rather than an arms producer).

 

USA Today

'Prophets of War - a tell-all on Lockheed Martin'

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/books/reviews/2011-01-24-warprophets24_ST_N.htm

 

.Extract:

 

"...a key factor that has helped the defense contractor (L.M) secure the most U.S.military contracts is the company’s ability to exploit the revolving door between Washington, the industry and itself, says Hartung.  Not only has this led to the company having strong influence over those who hold the U.S. government’s purse stings, many who are former Lockheed employees or board members, it has allowed the company to influence foreign policy decisions like pressing for war with Iraq..".

[mgh 89]

of course are really Boeing aircraft in which others, as well flight simulators have actually in. They were developed by the third largest third largest defence contractors.

[TooWings 17]

of course are really Boeing aircraft in which others, as well flight simulators have actually in. They were developed by the third largest third largest defence contractors.

 

Sorry but that wasn't clear.  I got the end bit about Boeing aircraft being developed by the third largest 'defence' contractors. But I dont see the relevance of your point as I dont intend to buy an aircraft from Boeing any time soon :0) ...nor indeed the P3D flight-sim from Lockheed.

[tf51d 284]

Sorry but that wasn't clear.  I got the end bit about Boeing aircraft being developed by the third largest 'defence' contractors. But I dont see the relevance of your point as I dont intend to buy an aircraft from Boeing any time soon :0) ...nor indeed the P3D flight-sim from Lockheed.

 

 

-

This thread is also available in paperback

-  ;-)

But you maybe flying on them when you take a trip.

[TooWings 17]

But you maybe flying on them when you take a trip.

 

Yes, in which case I pay my fare to British Airways for my flight and food.

 

-

This thread is also available in paperback

-  ;-)

[NikkiA 7]

It sure is good that FS9 and FSX are totally not linked to a defense industry company in any way. [/sarcasm]

[mgh 89]

 

It sure is good that FS9 and FSX are totally not linked to a defense industry company in any way. [/sarcasm]

 

 

Yes, aren't we fortunately that Microsoft doesn't have any defence contacts.

[LHookins 3,113]

I wonder if any other ex-military play flight sims.  Or combat flight sims.  Or played with realistic toy guns when they were young.

 

Don't worry, TwoWings, I put myself in harms way so you wouldn't have to, just so you could have the right to say the things you do.  You're welcome.

 

Hook

[Jeff H 63]

I wonder if any other ex-military play flight sims.  Or combat flight sims.  Or played with realistic toy guns when they were young.

 

Don't worry, TwoWings, I put myself in harms way so you wouldn't have to, just so you could have the right to say the things you do.  You're welcome.

 

Hook

Ditto!!

[LAdamson 240]

Yea for Lockheed Martin, and I don't much care for the postings from the guy with about 82 of them. I'm of the generation born, just a few short years after WWII. My son & daughter in law, have been to Afganistan numerous times. I don't even care to read, the last postings of poster 82. Thread has gone south alright.

[HiFlyer 9,374]

The procedural approach is great for improving dramatically the detail of the virtual world at a low level, as we see in products like Outerra, although I don't think it can be a substitute for the large amount of "high-level" data (land class or photoscenery, OSM data, etc.) needed for the realistic representation of the different parts of the Earth.

 

I think that with things like Outerra already depicting terrain so well, there is probably a decreasing need to even consider ortho-photos. With the ability to read Osm data already on the road-map, my train of thought is that a city engine of the type that already exists in X-planeX might then go a long way in filing out the rest of the world. In that scenario, basic outstanding issues would then be hydrographic data and clouds/weather.

 

Honestly though, I think it wouldn't take very much to make something that matched Aerofly (with world coverage!) and went from there, especially if powerful and intuitive scenery tools of the type already seen here were unleashed into the hands of a Steam workshop, for example. Things could then proceed, slowly or quickly from there, depending on reception and resources.

 

I bet Outerra could raise a heck of a kickstarter..........

 

Some videos also showcasing the recently added biomes

 

[TooWings 17]

It sure is good that FS9 and FSX are totally not linked to a defense industry company in any way

 

But the difference is that Microsoft isn't a controvertial  arms/drone/nuke manufacturer who is developing and selling P3D flightsims to military around the world. In fact Microsoft no longer even make flightsims. (FS9 and FSX being obselete). Microsoft are doing now what they have always done, simply supplying email and voice services etc to a variety of customers.

 I don't much care for the postings from the guy with about 82 of them.

 

Each to his own, I guess. But lets not exaggerate the number of my posts on this thread.  Ive only ever posted 83 in total on Avsim forums, to your 6,975 posts on Avsim.

 

L.Adamason wrote:

I'm of the generation born, just a few short years after WWII. My son & daughter in law, have been to Afganistan numerous times. I don't even care to read, the last postings of poster 82. Thread has gone south alright.

 

I dont see what your age has do with it, or the fact that you have relatives in the military.

This thread hasnt 'gone south, as you put it.  It's theme is about the future of new flight-simulators and I'm simply putting my personal views about our flightsim community becoming involved with L.M, and its involvement in taking over FSX and developing it into P3D for military use etc. My views on L.M. have been echoed elsewhere on Avsim and other forums.

 

 

 

Lockheed Martin

 

"According to Andrew Feinstein’s book, Deadly Business, the defense industry is responsible for more than 40 percent of global corruption – more than any other industry in the world. Feinstein claims that companies like Lockheed Martin..have reputations for bribing politicians across the world. This has prompted some, like the Indian MoD, to blacklist Lockheed Martin over suspicions of corruption.."

 

http://www.facing-finance.org/database/cases/production-of-nuclear-weapons-by-lockheed-martin/

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2011/11/quick-study-global-arms-trade?zid=293&ah=e50f636873b42369614615ba3c16df4a

[TooWings 17]

I wonder if any other ex-military play flight sims. Or combat flight sims. Or played with realistic toy guns when they were young.

 

Many of us have no doubt 'played' CFS-3 etc in the past, and shot toy guns as kids.  But I dont see what that has to do with this debate about FSX/P3D being developed and funded by L.M., a controvertial company at best, and the  world's largest  manufacturer of arms, drones, nukes etc.. 

 

Don't worry, TwoWings, I put myself in harms way so you wouldn't have to, just so you could have the right to say the things you do. You're welcome.

 

The US military invasion of Iraq led to over 500,000 deaths before the US pulled and ran -and the mayhem continues to this day with innocents being killed daily by car bombs etc.

And the same is about to happen in Afghanistan where the military is preparing to exit.

 

You dont have to be a military analyst to see that both wars achieved virtually nothing positive (except massive profits for the arms companies and steady wages for the troops). And sadly many many lives have been lost and blighted on both sides. 

 

So please, kindly don't give me the "I fought for your freedom" line. Its worn out and has been shown to be a hollow lie.  My grandfathers and uncles fought in WW2 against Adolf's Germany and thereby helped secure real 'freedom' and free speech for my country.

 

-----

 

Washington Post

'Majority of Americans say Afghan war has not been worth fighting'

Americans express near-record discontent and regret over the 13-year war in Afghanistan, during which 2,289 U.S. troops have died and more than 19,000 have been wounded.......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/majority-of-americans-say-afghan-war-has-not-been-worth-fighting-post-abc-news-poll-finds/2013/12/19/3484edb2-6836-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html

 

Washington Post

'A futile Afghan war'

'The new national intelligence estimate of the Afghan war affirms what was already well-known: This adventure was ill-conceived by our political leaders from the beginning and poorly executed by our military leaders throughout'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-next-on-afghanistan/2013/12/30/ab427dda-70a5-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

[xplanery 250]

"I fought for your freedom" line.  Its worn out and has been shown to be a hollow lie.

 

I got to agree with this part when it comes to wars such as Iraq & Afghanistan, they simply haven't done anything good to American people and haven't protected their freedoms no matter which way you look at them. 

Defensive wars & wars to liberate areas forcefully taken by foreign aggressors are a different thing of course, I respect soldiers whose work truly protects the freedoms of ordinary people.  

 

I'm sure most of the US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are good people who truly wanted to make a difference and help the locals, still the truth is you can't bring a democracy and basic freedoms to countries like Afghanistan and Iraq by simply overthrowing an oppressive government. A successful democracy requires way more than that, it requires a change in the whole culture of a society. 

 

We definitely should look critically at these things instead of just repeating the old obviously false mantra about soldiers always fighting wars to protect  freedom. That might have been so in case of WW2 but not anymore. And I'm not talking only about the US but world in general, critical thinking is one of the most important skills for any human being. 

 

I guess we should try to steer this topic back to its original theme, I just find the discussion regarding these important issues too hard to resist...