But the difference is that Microsoft isn't a controvertial  arms/drone/nuke manufacturer who is developing and selling P3D flightsims to military around the world. In fact Microsoft no longer even make flightsims. (FS9 and FSX being obselete). Microsoft are doing now what they have always done, simply supplying email and voice services etc to a variety of customers.

Microsoft is also a defence contractor so what is the difference. Surely a defence conteactor is a defence contractor - or is Microsoft a good defense contactor and Lockheed Martin a bad one? also Microsoft does far more than supplying email and voice services to defence.

 

Also Microsoft is STILL sells FSX so you're incorrect again.

 

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Flight-Simulator-X-Gold-Edition-PC-Game/productID.253657900

 

Finally, you'd be deter thinking up you own arguments rather repeating others and leave us no to getting on with P3D.

Microsoft is also a defence contractor so what is the difference. Surely a defence conteactor is a defence contractor - or is Microsoft a good defense contactor and Lockheed Martin a bad one?

 

The BIG difference is that Lockheed Martin is an arms manufacturer (cluster bombs, drone missiles, nukes etc), while Microsoft simply supply services to various sectors, including business, the military etc.  

For example, if a self-employed cleaner got a contract to clean toilets on a military base, or in L.M's offices, then he or she would become a defence 'contractor', not an 'arms manufacturer'. 

 

 

Also Microsoft is STILL sells FSX so you're incorrect again.

 

But what I said was: Microsoft no longer make flight-sims. 

Yes they still sell FSX, but its an 8-year-old sim that they no longer develop.  Likewise, I can also buy FS9 online,  but its still an obsolete flightsim which is no longer supported by MS.

 

 

Finally, you'd be deter thinking up you own arguments rather repeating others.

 

Just because I add links and sample quotes at the end of some of my posts doesn't mean I'm not expressing my own personal views. The linked articles simply back up my views and provide a reference, in the same way that the link in your post (above) attempted to do.

 

 

FS9 for sale

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-2004-Century-PC/dp/B000096L71

 

 

Just because I add links and sample quotes at the end of my posts doesn't mean I'm not expressing my own personal views. The linked articles simply back up my views, and provide a reference, in the same way that the link in your post (above) attempted to do.

 

Either way, you are killing the thread, we are not really interested in your views on LM

We prefer to discuss our hobby.

I thought Political topics were against the Avsim T&C, can a Mod confirm this please.

I have been a user of MSFS since FS 95 - 98 when I didn't understand what I'm doing, I saw MSFS as a game back then. Years have passed and here we are today 2014, 8 years later since FSX has been lunched and 8 years since Microsoft had let us down. I have invested in FSX more than 800 euros for add-ons including all PMDG planes. 

 

I have made the decision to move to x-plane after I was tweaking FSX more  than actual Flying it, I can stand 25 FPS and stutter after stutter, no matter what setting and tweaking I have made.

 

I was instantly amazed by the fluidity of X-plane, I was amazed by the quality of default textures, I was amazed by the quality of default planes, I was amazed by the quality of default night lights. I was WOW for one week, every day was passing and I was discovering the amazing world of x-plane. After one week of playing with default X-plane I was ready to completely remove FSX and guess what, I did remove it, no regret, or maybe I regret the PMDG 777 and 737, but one day IXEG will release the 737 (which is much better than NGX).

 

I had purchased the FF 757 (AMAZING quality and features), and JAR A 320, again amazing quality.

I saw several post here with AVSIM survey, let me showing you one picture to see that X-Plane is more used than FSX around the world. 

 

In the end I want to encourage everyone to just download x-plane demo and try it, fly with default Cessna and I guarantee that you wouldn't be disappointed, don't look back at your purchases for FSX, you haven't look back at your FS9 purchases when you moved to FSX, do the same now! 

 

 

Either way, you are killing the thread

we are not really interested in your views on LM

 

Well obviously some members are interested in my views as they have agreed with me, and many more have joined in the debate and expressed their own views.

 

So I'm not 'killing' this thread as you suggest; on the contrary, I'm airing a debate. So why stifle free speech? Nobody is forcing you to open this thread, let alone read it.

 

This thread is actually an ongoing debate which has taken various twists and turns regarding graphics, future hardware etc. to which I've also contributed. 

 

I thought Political topics were against the Avsim T&C, can a Mod confirm this please.

 

Calm down mister! ;-)  I'm not a political person and therefore my comments aren't political. The title of this thread is simply: 'Time to develop for a new sim'  Some of my recent posts  are in relation to the new P3D and its controversial developer, L.M, and our flightsim community's relationship with it. This has opened a wider debate as to whether L.M. is a suitable company for our FS-community to be doing business with, given that L.M is an arms producer currently involved, among other things, in the controversial drone programme in which many innocent civilians have died;  and that by supporting P3D you increase L.M's profits.

 

These views have been expressed elsewhere by simmers and provide our community with a wider view of things rather than trying to simply shut down such debates NRS style.

 

.

 

 

This has opened a wider debate on whether L.M. is a suitable enough company for the FS-community to be doing business with

 

No, you opened the debate about LM as an avenue to air your political views and have continued to bang on about at every opportunity.

 

I really don't care if LM also builds drones, I have zero interest what they get up to but I am happy that someone is taking the FSX codebase forward.

 

First we had folks lecturing us about the EULA, now thats fixed it's about the Ethics of supporting LM.

No, you opened the debate about LM as an avenue to air your political views .

 

Hi again,

 

I didn't 'open the debate' about L.M and P3D. If you read the thread again you'll see that another member mentioned L.M in terms of funding Outerra.  I simply added to the existing debate after that.

 

I really don't care if LM also builds drones, I have zero interest what they get up to

 

Yes, I figured that out a while ago (by your name).  ;-)

But you know, many people and communities are concerned what L.M et-al get 'up to'.,  particularly the relatives of all those men, women and children killed by drones over the years.

 

First we had folks lecturing us about the EULA, now thats fixed it's about the Ethics of supporting LM.

 

Like I said, nobody is forcing you to open this thread, or to read the posts, let alone make comments.  Its your choice. You could have let it be. But now here you are 'banging on', just like the rest of us. ;-)    (I'm simply responding to your comments and  false accusations).

 

.

 

 

Yes, I figured that a while back (by your name)

 

If you had looked at my Avatar you would see where that name comes from.

 

So not only do we have you spouting your bile about LM and the defence forces that use their products to keep your liberal arse safe, you also throw in a personal attack, nice

 

Tell us how you fell about the LM Hercules transports used to deliver aid anywhere in the world that disaster strikes, you can't have it both ways.

Regarding L.M having a 'significant presence' in civil aviation. Fine, but that doesent detract from the fact that they are still a massive arms manufacturer that among other things makes hellfire missiles for the highly controversial Predator drone. 

 

I'm afraid they are what they are, but it is complicit US taxpayers and their shrill government that is putting the demand on for these, period, end of story.  It may make one feel morally superior to boycott them but that doesn't change where the demand for the weapons market comes from and on the practical side boycotting their flight simulation endeavor will in absolutely positively no way affect the weapons production component, period, end of story.  Your complaint is 100% symbolic, and weak at that.   Spend time organizing to protest US foreign policy directly to the decision makers if you really, truly care about the point you bring up.

Okay, this thread is now officially declared dead. I thank the many who have kept it civil and mostly on topic, but it is clear that there is no chance of recovery at this juncture.

 

I caution everyone to not simply move this 'ethical argument' to another thread at AVSIM.