My current rig is about 5 years old now.  With the advances in hardware, a bit more money than I used to have and relative stagnation of FSX (i.e., no new versions needing more powerful hardware), I am thinking of upgrading my system.  My goal with this build is to finally achieve a system that runs FSX >18-20 fps in virtually any situation with sliders almost or entirely to the right (I know it's finicky, may need to tone that down a little).

 

I currently run an i7-920 at 3.8 GHz (first generation i7 Sandy Bridge) and a GTX 285 graphics card.  I know the graphics card is particularly outdated.  I'm going to deal with that later.  My first order of business is to figure out the CPU I want to base the build on. 

 

My first instinct is to go for the best CPU money can buy since FSX is so CPU bound.  This would lead me towards the -7-4770K.  As I understand it though, these are finicky, largely depending on batch numbers, to overclock.  I've seen people reference in threads that the i5-4670K overclocks better, or at least equal, and is $100-130 cheaper.

 

What might I loose if I go with the 4670K instead of a 4770K?  I do plan to overclock, but I tend to be more comfortable on a milder overclock.  As such, I plan on pushing to something in the neighborhood of 4.2-4.4 GHz depending on how temps behave.  Obviously a clock speed is a clock speed.  However, I remember back with the first generation of i3/5/7, the i7 had a faster cache that could make a big performance difference.  I am not clear if that difference still exists. 

 

Any thoughts to help me pick between these two chips?  I appreciate any help.

I can't answer your question about the comparison, but for temperature, since you plan to OC to 4.2 or 4.4, here is my personal experience with my i7 4770K:

 

When I first got my 4770K, it ran extremely hot when I used stock fans from my case. Upgrading to a liquid cooling system reduced the noise of my stock fans, making it easier to record. So - if you have extra funds left over, I'd recommend a liquid cooler for your new chip if you get the i7. 

 

 

When I first got my 4770K, it ran extremely hot when I used stock fans from my case. Upgrading to a liquid cooling system reduced the noise of my stock fans, making it easier to record. So - if you have extra funds left over, I'd recommend a liquid cooler for your new chip if you get the i7.

 

I will definitely be using an aftermarket cooler.  Not sure yet if I will do air or water.  I have felt much more comfortable using solid air coolers than having liquid running by my sensitive electronics so far.

4770k has hyperthreading. FSX doesn't utilise HT.

 

However the 4770k does have a bigger cache, which is said to be good for FSX.

 

Re coolers, do consider the Archon Sb-E X2. Great cooler and no ram issues.

FSX doesn't care about HT, nor does anything else actually... The CPU decides about that and it does make a difference.

 

I find it odd that people keep cutting the legs to their CPUs with that AffinityMask thing when the CPU can decide upon usage of its cores much better than the software it's running.

Get the i7 4770k. You won't regret it. You're textures will actually load faster with HT. I have the same processor running @ 4.5ghz using a Noctua nh-d14. When running fsx my temp never go above 68c

 

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You're textures will actually load faster with HT.

Got any definitive evidence of that?

 

Has anyone else replicated that?

 

Is it worth the extra 10 degrees CPU temp, and thus lower overclock?

Got any definitive evidence of that?

 

Has anyone else replicated that?

 

Is it worth the extra 10 degrees CPU temp, and thus lower overclock?

I'm running my 4770k with HT on and it makes a big difference when loading textures even at stock speeds. I upgraded from a i5-3570 and usually when I hit the fly now button fsx would pause at 6% loading screen for about 15 seconds. I no longer have that pause. The i7 has really changed fsx for me. Everything is smooth and I'm getting 30fps at even the most demanding sceneries

So, you have tested the 4770K with HT on, used some kind on method to measure accurately, and then compared with HT off? Thus can definitively prove your claim is true.

 

Or does it just "feel" faster.

 

The reason I ask, is that your claims fly in the face of conventional wisdom.

 

For my 3770K it makes no difference whatsoever if HT is on or off. What it does do, is increase temperature by 10 degrees, thus limiting the overclock.

 

Has anyone else replicated your results?

 

 

when I hit the fly now button fsx would pause at 6% loading screen for about 15 seconds. I no longer have that pause. The i7 has really changed fsx for me. Everything is smooth and I'm getting 30fps at even the most demanding sceneries

Same for me... with HT off.

 

 

I'm not trying to dispute your claims, just trying to make sure you are certain, definitively, and not being fooled by the placebo effect.

 

In addition, what you may be benefiting from is the increased cache of the 17 compared to your old 15. Not HT.

Edited February 23, 201412 yr by martin-w

 

Its definately not placebo effect. It may be the cache or the HT, who knows. All I know is that with HT on my system is performing really well. I know some people on the forum has also said they get better performance with HT and some with it off. I guess it all depends on the system itself.

 

With HT on my temp is very good. On average my temps are around 48-68C. Overclocked at 4.5ghz with a Noctua nh-d14

So, you have tested the 4770K with HT on, used some kind on method to measure accurately, and then compared with HT off? Thus can definitively prove your claim is true.
 
Or does it just "feel" faster.
 
The reason I ask, is that your claims fly in the face of conventional wisdom.
 
For my 3770K it makes no difference whatsoever if HT is on or off. What it does do, is increase temperature by 10 degrees, thus limiting the overclock.
 
Has anyone else replicated your results?

 

Same for me... with HT off.


I'm not trying to dispute your claims, just trying to make sure you are certain, definitively, and not being fooled by the placebo effect.

In addition, what you may be benefiting from is the increased cache of the 17 compared to your old 15. Not HT.

 

Its definately not placebo effect. It may be the cache or the HT, who knows.

Well there you go, you said it. You said "who knows".

 

The cache I would say. The higher cache of the i7 is known to offer benfits, on the other hand, the general consensus, [when tested properly] is that HT offers no benefit.

 

Unfortunately, unless you can come up with an accurate method to measure the effect, and then test with the same CPU, with HT on and then off, we are just guessing. Others then need to be able to consistently replicate the results. Human beings are too easily fooled, if we are going to make definitive claims, we need to provide definitive evidence... not subjective opinion.

 

With HT on my temp is very good. On average my temps are around 48-68C. Overclocked at 4.5ghz with a Noctua nh-d14

 

 

 

Yes, I have the D14 too. But the point, is that with HT off you will save 10 degrees and have more overclocking headroom.

Edited February 24, 201412 yr by martin-w

Well there you go, you said it. You said "who knows".

 

The cache I would say. The higher cache of the i7 is known to offer benfits, on the other hand, the general consensus, [when tested properly] is that HT offers no benefit.

 

Unfortunately, unless you can come up with an accurate method to measure the effect, and then test with the same CPU, with HT on and then off, we are just guessing. Others then need to be able to consistently replicate the results. Human beings are too easily fooled, if we are going to make definitive claims, we need to provide definitive evidence... not subjective opinion.

 

 

 

Yes, I have the D14 too. But the point, is that with HT off you will save 10 degrees and have more overclocking headroom.

The same can easily be said about HT with it been off. The fact is some people say they get better performance with it on, some say the opposite. I dont need to turn off HT because at 4.5Ghz, my system runs great and it stays cool. The pic I posted shows my temps while play fsx, and that is with all the sliders to right. Thats pretty good if you ask me and my framerate never drops below 28.

The same can easily be said about HT with it been off. The fact is some people say they get better performance with it on, some say the opposite. I dont need to turn off HT because at 4.5Ghz, my system runs great and it stays cool. The pic I posted shows my temps while play fsx, and that is with all the sliders to right. Thats pretty good if you ask me and my framerate never drops below 28.

What is your Vcore at 4,5 GHz?

What is your Vcore at 4,5 GHz?

1.225. Thats with prime95 running. When idle, its at 1.168

1.225. Thats with prime95 running. When idle, its at 1.168

 

I  use 1,25 V at 4,5 which seem stable. Cooling is Corsair H100i.  With 1.225 I can boot but after a few minutes PC BSOD.