Am I the only one that liked Vista?

 

People complained about it because their computers were from the XP-era (i.e., crap). If you had a capable/modern system, it actually ran very well and was a major improvement to XP. It looked nicer, was more modern, and was great for gaming.

 

 

I have 2 rigs running 24/7 one with Vista 64 bit and the other Win 7 and have never had a single issue with the Vista rig which is the one I run FSX on

I've got my Windows 7 running on an SSD so Boot Times are no problem at all. Not sure what the difference in Boot Time between Win7 and Win8 would be on an SSD but it would be very little difference.

 

So problem solved...just get an SSD

I have 2 rigs running 24/7 one with Vista 64 bit and the other Win 7 and have never had a single issue with the Vista rig which is the one I run FSX on

  

Exactly.

There is a workaround for this,unplug/disconnect your internet connection,enter random data into the field with an @ sign,then it will give an error and an option to create a 'normal' user account.

 

Nope, that's only going to make a local account in the machine (Which you can do without going through your steps). You still need to have a Microsoft account (aka Windows Live) to download "apps" and the 8.1 update.

Boot times don't interest me much since I turn my PC on then in the 48 seconds it takes until the desktop is useable (Win7 on a hard drive) i simply do something else like make a drink. 

 

User prefs again could simply be done as an update to windows 7. Same with SkyDrive integration (my DropBox integrates with explorer in the exact same way for free by the way).

 

Virtual CD-ROM by Microsoft allows you to mount iso's and was recently updated to support 7 and Vista. Free.

 

For £25 i'd want my money back. None of those features save for a few seconds cut off boot speed couldn't of been done via a free update to Win7.

Exactly what I think. Spot on.

I've got my Windows 7 running on an SSD so Boot Times are no problem at all. Not sure what the difference in Boot Time between Win7 and Win8 would be on an SSD but it would be very little difference.So problem solved...just get an SSD

Yup... What's the big deal about boot times?

All kinds of advertising as an example if I hit the weather button, I get ads for 3 or 4 local ski resorts.

 

I don't mind advertising to support free services etc. but the last thing window's is...  is free.  

Agreed - I tend to avoid "Metro Apps". They're usually rather useless and ineffective. I haven't experienced the ads myself, but I believe it, and I'm sure that'd irritate me.

Agreed - I tend to avoid "Metro Apps". They're usually rather useless and ineffective. I haven't experienced the ads myself, but I believe it, and I'm sure that'd irritate me.

I bought a Surface Pro which has an I5 cpu with a complete version of windows 8.1 professional on it, I really like it except for the advertising

 

I am really getting tired of these multibillion dollar, make money hand over fist corporation's, monetizing us. I use to be someone who would stay up to date, buying the latest version's of software and now I find myself very very cynical.

I had a Surface Pro 1 and the built in weather app had ads.

 

I returned the Pro 1 because I read some rumors that the 2 was coming out soon. Guess what? It did. I'm thinking of being the 64gb one.

 

 

Spring of 2015 we should see the new OS.

 

Sadly Windows 9 is going to focus even more on mobile and touch screen computing ... Microsoft's mission is to move desktop users from WinXP and Win7 to their mobile focused OS.  The mission isn't working very well even when they tell XP users no more support (result of that was higher Win7 user increase with only marginal Win8 increase).  Win7 was on the "no support" wagon (as early as Oct 2014) up until recently when Microsoft changed their mind and announced they'll extend support date (no finite end date given yet).

 

I've heard/read different information about Win9 ... but from what I know "desktop" mode will be completely removed from the product.

 

Head of Windows OS group sees a future (announced this to the public) of the average person using 4-5 mobile devices ... now think about that statement carefully ... it absolutely makes no sense.  Why would people want to lug or have 4-5 mobile devices -- sorta defeats the purpose of it being "mobile".  But again, this is representative of the person heading up the Windows OS division.  This is NOT good news.

 

Given how bad IE11 (by far the worst browser version to ever be released) and IE's continued drop in market share, Microsoft appear to be continuing on a path that is more of the same -- which after 900Million write down on the Surface products can't be a desirable path.  

 

It sadly feels like "mobile or bust" for Microsoft because they are draining revenue from their enterprise division and they can't keep doing that for an extended period of time and hope their customer base eventually gives in to Microsoft's vision of a single OS to do all.  I guess Microsoft feel that if they can't get a Mobile presence, they're dead as a company ... short sighted IMHO.  

 

What I fear will happen is that Windows 7 updates will actually be introduced to slow down and/or "accidentally" produce more bugs -- increasing user's frustrated with Win7 in the hope they'll move to Win9.  Now before you say Microsoft would never do that intentionally, Apple did and still do this very process in iOS updates that render older iPhones/iPads/hardware problematic ... of course proving intent is close to impossible, they just say they implement a feature not available in the older phones.

 

As far as purchasing Win8 OS and not expecting to see ads ... well   ... http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/10/23/microsoft-makes-new-ad-platform-sdks-available-windows-8-1-help-store-developers-monetize-apps/#!sOcgo  Microsoft claim this can be turned On/Off ... but that's not entirely true and store Apps can still do whatever they like on the ad's front ... take a look at Skype for example, plenty of "ads" some end up pointing to malicious websites ... so much for Microsoft's "security" commitment.

 

Anyway for real development work and flight simulation enjoyment, I'm going to stick with Windows 7 for as long as I can.  

 

But to be noted, it doesn't really matter who's running the show at Microsoft ... their management issues are much deeper than just Ballmer.

 

My 2 cents on Win9.

 

 

What I fear will happen is that Windows 7 updates will actually be introduced to slow down and/or "accidentally" produce more bugs -- increasing user's frustrated with Win7 in the hope they'll move to Win9.

 

It seems like Microsoft has been doing this on my Windows XP machines for some time now.

 

Ted

Anyway for real development work and flight simulation enjoyment, I'm going to stick with Windows 7 for as long as I can.

 

Good move!

 

Microsoft say they will provide extended support for Windows 7 until January 14, 2020. But they usually always extend timelines under pressure from users.  For example,.XP updates are now extended until summer 2015...

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/microsoft-extends-windows-xp-protection-2015-136187

 

Windows 8, love or hate?

 

'Microsoft Should Read Customers' Lips on Windows 8'

Commerce Times

 

Quote:

 

"The vast majority of companies and consumers are staying as far away from Windows 8 as they can".

 

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/79264.html

 

'Windows 8: What Went Wrong'

Tech Week Europe

Quote:

 

"..although Windows 7 and Windows 8 are similar in many respects, the former is seen as a stable, proven operating system that has a high employee acceptance rate and is compatible with their applications".

 

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/windows-8-rt-tablets-pc-120379

 

 

.

 

 

Microsoft say they will provide extended support for Windows 7 until January 14, 2020. But they usually always extend timelines under pressure from users.

 

Good to know, thank you.

 

I'm certainly not against new products/technology ... just the opposite (I'm often a 1st adopter).

 

The failure in Microsoft's grand plan is trying to make "one OS for all" when the primary intended use environments don't fit their vision - can you imagine trying to do 3D CAD/Animation work using your fingers and a touch screen ... ugh, what a mess and hopelessly inaccurate mess.  I can understand the desire to make a mobile footprint, but I can't understand the process of continued back siding desktop development when it's Microsoft's primary market.  What's the logic behind that?

 

With some work you can get Win8.1 looking and working similar to Win7 ... I think part of the problem is that nothing "new" has been added to the desktop side so why would a Win7 desktop user/consumer want to "upgrade" to Win8.1 only to turn everything back to desktop mode and get no additional features/functionality?

 

I'm assuming Microsoft software engineers share/re-use code across OS versions in a large source code repository ... at least I hope they do?  So there is nothing stopping them from adding functionality to desktop mode.

 

I just don't understand the Win8/Win9 risk -- why take it when it's not necessary?

 

But one thing appears to be certain, no plans for DX12 any time soon (initial rumors were in Win9, but that seems to be not the case) ... as I understand it Microsoft doesn't want the desktop PC to look/operate games better than Xbox platform so continued development of DX for the desktop PC is highly unlikely.  DX will probably continue to evolve but it'll be for Xbox only.

 

Of course, most of this is speculation based on bits of information (some from Microsoft, some not).  But I have also heard conflicting rumors that Win9 will bring the Start button back and Metro will be the "optional" UI not the default UI ... so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  

I totally agree with all your comments Rob except.....

 

"With some work you can get Win8.1 looking and working similar to Win7".

 

In my opinion W8 may look similar to 7 but has various glitches and incompatibilty issues that I've come across in the field.

 

Like you I'm not against new products and technology, but I dislike change for change's sake.  I'm getting concerned at Microsoft going off at tangents with W8, and W9?. 

Windows is, after all, the most widely used PC/laptop OS in the world, but the business sector etc simply doesent take W8 seriously, and for good reason.

Funny, because last night my folks (80+) wanted a new PC.  I couldn't find one with Windows 7 so we had to settle on a Dell unit (from BestBuy) ... it actually came with Win8 (not 8.1) ... and Win8 doesn't allow one to use the mail client for anything other than a Microsoft account.  Win8.1 will but you have to change policy settings etc .etc.  AND, the mail client doesn't support pop ... soooo, one has to buy or get another mail client from the App Store.  Nutty, why yes it is ... I really don't understand the executive decision process here ... a real disconnect to the world of end users.

 

But overall my folks found the Win8.x interface very confusing ... so if the UI is supposed to be better for the non-power user, it's clearly failed at that also.  Some screens you can't get out of ... the cancel button does nothing ... the only way to get back to your Metro UI is by hitting the big Windows key on the keyboard -- didn't even get the window showing up in the lower left corner which does the same thing -- not sure how's that gonna work for a touch only interface usage?

 

Anyway, in desktop mode, made a shortcut to a web site and then tapped on the shortcut to load the site and IE crashed.  There was no option to "Pin to Start" for the short cut so I couldn't get it to show up on the Metro side.

 

So off to the App Store to download the free 8.1 update  (all 3.2GB worth).  But all along, I'm thinking "this is what an end user has to go thru"?  It's no wonder the OS isn't selling well and hasn't made any significant market share long long after release.  It's clearly a UI that was design by reaction ... i.e. "well how are they going to do this" ... "oh, lets add a hidden side swipe" ... overall just a really bad way to design a UI for both power user and non-tech user.

 

If Windows 9 does end up being more of this end user torture, then the company really should split it's divisions into separate entities and protect themselves from complete collapse.  Their Enterprise division and XBox division remain healthy but their Windows OS and mobile division is really sucking the life out of the company.

 

 

my folks (80+) wanted a new PC. I couldn't find one with Windows 7 so we had to settle on a Dell with Win8 (not 8.1) ..

 

In case you missed my link earler for Classic Shell.  It can boot to desktop with no Ui, and also restores the start button and programme menus etc.

http://www.classicshell.net/

There are only 4 corners to remember with Win8, we can close enclosable windows, and do other undoable things. Remember where the corners are, and to click the other mouse button.

That's another UI mistake (4 hidden but important corners) ... a very important part of working with Win8 is initially hidden to the user as a default layout ... the search which you bring up by a right side gesture or move the mouse off the right side of the screen.

 

Even the power on process, just brings up a screen with the time on it ... nothing else, no visual clue as to what to do next ... gesture up or click somewhere on the screen and viola you get a login prompt.  What's the point of this step?  An OS shouldn't be a puzzle game that the user is trying to solve ... I doubt many users find OS puzzle solving fun.

 

But there is NO visual clue at all for a first time user ... sorta hope they eventually find it?  This is just poor UI design ... they should default this key feature to visible initially and provide an option to hide automatically IF the user wants that.  Clearly a design compromise specifically aimed at Mobile devices where having that feature default to visible would take up too much of the very limited mobile screen real estate.

 

A simple solution can be implemented during the initial install/startup of Win8 where one enters their user info, country, etc. ... A  prompt something like "are you running a desktop computer?" - if yes, then the OS operates under a design/layout that works best for a desktop user.  There are numerous tools I use (Adobe, Cinema 4D, etc.) that offer built in "layouts" specific to how I work and/or the type of work I'm doing - nothing like this exists in Win8.x.  But more importantly why second guess an end user and how they work, give them some default layouts and then give them the ability to make their own custom UI layouts ... get out of the business of second guessing users.

Agreed, the four corners, maybe they didn't jump out at me, but once I found them, I've not forgotten where they are.  :ph34r: