MH370

[MarkRey 16]

I have had this idea bouncing aroumd my head for the last few days because of the Malaysian flight disappearance.

 

Albeit a costly indeavor, it would be possible with 21st century technology to have a constant data/audio/video feed of every commercial airplane in the sky. Each plane would continuously uplink data/audio that is present in the black boxes in real time to geosynchronous satellites. It is then downlinked and saved in vast server farms for later scrutiny. The data can also be monitored in realtime by the proper authorities/NTSB if need be. A video portion from within the cockpit and cabin could also be added. The black boxes would become a secondary data source for redundancy purposes only.

 

If we had a system like this in place, it would be great tool for flight safety.

 

Been thinking similarly. I've no idea what is or is not economically and/or technically feasible, but to totally lose an aircraft and hundreds of people like this in 2014 boggles my mind. There MUST be a better way to keep track of a modern jetliner, even if it now requires 'tombstone technology' going forward.

[mganz121 159]

I suspect politics is hampering search efforts big time. It feels as if everyone is throwing as much mud at the wall as they can just to see what sticks. I really feel for the families.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Albeit a costly indeavor, it would be possible with 21st century technology to have a constant data/audio/video feed of every commercial airplane in the sky.

I see it this way....The cable company has a fleet of vehicles that are GPS tracked. And when the Cable Guy van has been found to be parked at a local strip club he loses his job because his employer can see that one of their vans has been parked out front on GPS tracking.

 

My iPhone can be found when I lost it with a simple 'Find iPhone' app. But we can't find a $300 million dollar airliner?

 

I agree these planes should be broadcasting more flight information back to the airlines that own them constantly.

[Jan Tore Elvheim 0]

Don't know what the common datalink for gps tracking services are, but our system uses mobilephone network to transfer positiondata. In other words, useless for airliners. I can only imagine the satellite capacity needed would be if relayed that way.

And remembering the cost of using my phone relayed through satelitte out on the sea on a cruise, the cost would be massive:blink:

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

It took aviation accidents to mandate black boxes on commercial flights when the technology began to allow that. I would think we are not too far off from a datalink that sends some of the black box information back to the airline that includes speed, altitude and position.

 

These are $300 million dollar assets so it kind of sucks when you lose one. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

 

It would also be helpful for the company to see things like when a jet is off course or something as it is real time information.

[tf51d 284]

I agree these planes should be broadcasting more flight information back to the airlines that own them constantly.

 

Another way to do it, but would be quite expensive as it would require changes to ATC Radar, as well as the aircraft, but would be relatively foolproof. Is to have a secondary transponder on the aircraft, that activates whenever power either from Battery, standby power,  APU, engines, or ram turbine., and can not be turned off by the pilots. It would squawk a default transponder code (Like 1200 is the default for VFR)  that ATC radar would normally ignore (but be recorded) but can switch on if needed.  Only when the primary transponder is squawking would it be overridden. If the primary trans is switched off the plane would continue transmitting with the default code. Data transmitted would be the same as the primary (Alt, speed, etc) except it would identify by registration number instead of flight number. This way the planes location and telemetry can be tracked, as long as there is any source of electrical power, that no one in the cockpit could defeat. Like I say it would be expensive to implement, and would need international buy in to do, but it would prevent disappearances like this in the future. Of course planes may still go down, but at least you would always know where!

[NGXfanatic 85]

I have had this idea bouncing aroumd my head for the last few days because of the Malaysian flight disappearance.

 

Albeit a costly indeavor, it would be possible with 21st century technology to have a constant data/audio/video feed of every commercial airplane in the sky. Each plane would continuously uplink data/audio that is present in the black boxes in real time to geosynchronous satellites. It is then downlinked and saved in vast server farms for later scrutiny. The data can also be monitored in realtime by the proper authorities/NTSB if need be. A video portion from within the cockpit and cabin could also be added. The black boxes would become a secondary data source for redundancy purposes only.

 

If we had a system like this in place, it would be great tool for flight safety.

No doubt that there is no excuse, in this day and age in our hyper-connected world, to lose a jumbo jet like this.   I believe this incident is going to be the wake up call the industry needed, like all past aviation disasters.   Of course expense/politics/bureaucracy will be claimed as the reason why such technology was never in place, but once the costs are tallied up following this disaster, both in terms of monetary damages and the loss of life, I see no reason why the industry would not learn from this teachable moment.

 

Was the recent emergence of the "internet of everything" and the business of big data destined to make it's way into the world of aircraft tracking?   I'm sure it was, but like the degradation of infrastructure in my home country, the United States, it takes a major loss of lives to prompt businesses to make the expensive investments necessary to avoid future losses.  

 

I am positive that there will be major changes to improve aircraft tracking once the dust settles.  A foolproof way to transmit blackbox data live to server farms, with redundant systems in place to account for external forces like sabotage or hardware failure, seems to make the most sense.   Afterall, blackboxes are supposed to be indestructible, and simply adding additional tracking functionality to existing technology like ACARS or engine monitors would not fully account for the potential for total failure of those two mechanisms, as in this case.  Yes it will be costly, but so are accident investigations, lawsuits, and airline bankruptcies.  A proper cost benefit analysis will justify the added expense of the most suitable solution.   

[Groovin_DC-10 51]

This is so mysterious.  The crew, passengers and their families will be in my thoughts.

I also hope for a positive outcome, even though it's becoming less and less because it's been missing for a week.

 

I'll be keeping my eyes on updates.  I've been trying to keep up as much as I can but I'm going to wait for something conclusive now because I'm just tired of all the guessing games by the lame stream media with their "panel of experts".  Not to mention discussions outside of aviation/flight sim forums.

I actually came across a forum that was discussing this and the members were blaming the pilot because he's into flight simulation!  They were saying he most likely hijacked the plane after practicing on his simulator.  Sick people!

[NGXfanatic 85]

I am inclined to agree with Maurice, I'm starting to tire of all the speculation, both of crazy and rational thought.   The idea that the pilot's affiliation with flight simulation could lead to him hijacking the plane for nefarious purposes is just utterly insane.  You could use that theory to explain how an average joe could acquire the technical knowledge to commandeer a complex jetliner, but how in the world would that line of logic apply to a type rated pilot who already has access to the controls?   Same thing with the fools who argued against allowing pilots to bring handguns on board to help thwart off potential hijackers.  They already have control of the aircraft, and if one was determined and crazy enough, they could intentionally crash the aircraft.   You have to hope that consistent psychological testing of cockpit crews, and a vigilant copilot, act as a check against that possibility.   I can't for the life of me figure out how the fact that a pilot enjoys desktop flight simulation could be viewed as a red flag.

[jonss1948 20]

So what happened to the epirb? and why was the transponder turned off? all questions to ponder.

[FLEX1978 373]

Guys,

 

Not sure you are aware but RR and other engine manufactures offer real time engine monitoring.  For some reason MH370 was not being monitored (probably cost)

 

Btw, apparently the Captain was a member here on Avsim, he had a 777 cockpit setup using the PMDG 777 and also X-plane

 

Regards

[tf51d 284]

 

 

Not sure you are aware but RR and other engine manufactures offer real time engine monitoring. For some reason MH370 was not being monitored (probably cost)

 

My understanding from reports earlier in the day, was that the plane did have RT engine monitoring, but for cost reasons, they didn't buy the option to monitor all on board systems.?

[NGXfanatic 85]

Guys,

 

Not sure you are aware but RR and other engine manufactures offer real time engine monitoring.  For some reason MH370 was not being monitored (probably cost)

 

Btw, apparently the Captain was a member here on Avsim, he had a 777 cockpit setup using the PMDG 777 and also X-plane

 

Regards

As mentioned above by Tom, this flight's engines were monitored by RR, but they chose not to have all systems monitored.  I had no idea the engine manufacturer's offered such tracking, I'm learning so much from the news coverage.  I have to hope that there is a push to have more data monitored in real time, like the blackboxes, as we certainly have the technology to accommodate such coverage.

 

Do you have a source on the claim the captain was an AVSIM member?   I don't doubt that he has used these forums, as I've been thinking about that possibility since I learned he was a member of another obscure flightsim forum (x-sim.de?).   I can't help but feel we lost one of our own, whether he was an anonymous lurker or a registered member.   Looking at his flightsim setup pictures, it appeared to be taken pre-PMDG 777, and I'm trying to figure out which addon he was using.   CS I doubt, as I believe it used default panels.  Maybe Wilco if FSX, or PSS for FS9, as it was mentioned he used both sims.   I remember a nice, full featured X-plane 777 was available ahead of the PMDG bird, so that is also possible.   Forgive me, I know you are reporting he used both MSFS and X-plane, I'm just thinking aloud in case there is no proof he was part of our crowd.

[scott967 62]

The most dangerous phases of flight are take off and landing (56% of fatalities).  I'm not sure how all this telemetry data is going to fix that.  If a pilot can't land without ILS that seems like a bigger problem to fix than "lost" aircraft in cruise over water.

 

scott s.

.

[lodestar 186]

live press conference, in English, started already http://www.astroawani.com/videos/live