MH370

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Under a certain Goverment of NZ about 11 years ago during the Pakistani-Indian crisis NZ were offered a batch (21 I think) of F-16s from the US at a discount yet even then that particular Government refused to purchase.

 

Yes and I am in support of no fighter jets here, simply because New Zealand has a population of 4.5 Million so not enough population to support it. Money is better spent on Navy Ships, Helicopters and Anti-Submarine Aircraft.

 

If we had to intercept something we do have two 757's, but they are not capable of shooting something down. 

[mebull 27]

 

 

If we had to intercept something we do have two 757's, but they are not capable of shooting something down.

 

I like your answer Matthew. Enough to avoid the thumbs up icon and just say so. Also need to add that a as soon as I hit the reply, I started getting a mental picture of two B757 s racing ahead of and above a intruder with their crews pitching boxes of lawn darts out of the planes. No disrespect intended. I should also add that I feel some what guilty at attempting any humor at all under the current conditions and seriousness of the main topic here.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I like your answer Matthew. Enough to avoid the thumbs up icon and just say so. Also need to add that a as soon as I hit the reply, I started getting a mental picture of two B757 s racing ahead of and above a intruder with their crews pitching boxes of lawn darts out of the planes. No disrespect intended. I should also add that I feel some what guilty at attempting any humor at all under the current conditions and seriousness of the main topic here.

 

no disrespect at all....We are a very different culture down here so yea the lawn darts sounds about right. Here is a little bit of humour I posted recently on another forum:

 

 

Here is the difference between the USA and New Zealand. In the USA the government spies on its people through the Internet. In New Zealand if you wanted to know anything about someone you just go down to the local pub.

 

Truth to that as everyone knows everyone in New Zealand, it is a very laid back place to live. Been here 3.5 years now and I don't plan on leaving

 

Cheers

[mrtk311 34]

Getting tired of watching the media, both local and international. It's all speculation, I'm getting tired of it all. The corrupt government is trying to politicise the thing.

[IAF747 8]

Yes and I am in support of no fighter jets here, simply because New Zealand has a population of 4.5 Million so not enough population to support it. Money is better spent on Navy Ships, Helicopters and Anti-Submarine Aircraft.

 

If we had to intercept something we do have two 757's, but they are not capable of shooting something down.

 

Rarely I disagree with you Matty but I'm all out here!

 

I think NZ needs to pull its own weight.

 

I think some people totally miss the point with having an Air Force.

 

If you leave it to Surface Ships without an Air Defence shield it's pretty lonely unless in an US Carrier Group.

 

I think a few dozen fighters is about what NZ needs, not 500.

 

Honestly Australia and NZ needs to boost its defence fighters by about 200-300. Traditionally we are ANZACs and that is a close relationship.

 

It was devastating enough to have our boys sent in to battle in Gallipoli and get mowed down. We should be clever enough to prevent that from happening again.

 

I don't get this peace thing where people think that by disarming we will reap peace. It works the opposite. Obama has been making cuts to Defence and Putin goes on the attack. All Obama will do is speak nicely to Putin! Let him take the whole Ukraine, I am sure after a few more like that it will remind many of ancient history when Chamberlain made a "peace in our time" deal with ######!

 

I think younger voters in the US will be getting a good education on super power politics right about now....if they ever did....

[xplanery 250]

Obama has been making cuts to Defence and Putin goes on the attack. All Obama will do is speak nicely to Putin!

 

Do you suggest starting world war 3 by attacking Russia would be a better alternative? Should Russia have stepped in when United States invaded Iraq against will of the UN? 

 

Really what Putin is doing in Crimea isn't even nearly as severe as what United States did in Iraq. In fact most Crimeans support what Russia is doing there, so what's the problem? Putin isn't going to take the whole Ukraine, that's for sure.

 

 

 

I think younger voters in the US will be getting a good education on super power politics right about now....if they ever did....

 

 

Yeah I agree, they should be educated about failures in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. They should be taught how war really causes more problems than it truly solves.

 

Here in Europe arms races between old European powers caused nothing but trouble. Only through diplomacy we have finally managed to make this continent rather peaceful. 

 

 

 

I am sure after a few more like that it will remind many of ancient history when Chamberlain made a "peace in our time" deal with ######!

 

If the French hadn't ruined German economy with oversized sanctions & humiliated them by taking some of their lands and restricting their freedom the WW2 would have never happened. As always hate just fuels more hate. 

 

As long as people are constantly prepared to fight and think war can be a solution there will be no peace. 

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

I fully agree with FScamp here.

 

What is more is, Putin taking the Crimea wasn't caused by US military spendings being cut, but by "geopolitical" changes and other considerations (Ukraine turning from pro-Russian to pro-EU, fascist tendencies gaining immense power in the Ukraine, maybe even turning against Russian residents in the Ukraine at some point in the future).

 

No, Putin isn't right nor do his actions make him an "exemplary democrat" (much-critized words by former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, now being paid by Gazprom).

 

So, who's off-topic now?  

[Captain_Barfbag 31]

 

 

In New Zealand we have a very large area that extends over the South Pacific and cover the ATC all the way down to Antarctica, and we don't have any fighter jets.....not even one:

 

That's because your government doesn't go out and antagonize the rest of the world, nor does it try to police the rest of the world.

 

To be truthful, I think you're on to something.

[mrtk311 34]

 

 

Truth to that as everyone knows everyone in New Zealand, it is a very laid back place to live. Been here 3.5 years now and I don't plan on leaving

 

If Malaysia ever goes down the drain to the point of no return, I think I'll move to NZ  :lol:

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Let's get this topic back on-topic. This discussion of USA vs Russia and politics is going to get this thread shut down pretty quickly if it goes further. Take it back to the topic at hand.

[fluffyflops 1,865]

Does anyone know what cargo was onboard?  Have also been wondering about the chances of rapid decompression, crew supply lasts much longer then pax supply.  It is possible that the crew lasted long enough to ditch the aircraft intact, no life rafts because everyone in the back was unconscious, aircraft sinks & no wreckage to be found

 

The whole thing is very bizzare, it must be horrible for the family's not knowing the truth.

I'd also love to know what the manifest was... but Malaysian have done well to keep flying. I know in my airline ops room. First thing we do in an incident is shut the systems down so data cannot be sent anywhere or manipulated.  Second, quite simply you keep flying the programme sched as normal, otherwise your airline Is done.  Malaysian have done both very well

 

Agreed Rob.. decompression, either rapid or slow. Power to acars and satcomm goes off

 

 

 They descended to 10k as per driftdown erops (most people on here won't understand)  and head to an era (enroute alternate) in order not to get a wet footprint.  Oxygen fails in f/d for whatever reason, hypoxia sets In. Aircraft goes in the drink. Simple.  You ask most qualified people. They will go for that.

 

Add in the Malaysians don't want to admit their radars a bit cheap and crap, and the military's radar was asleep. (Come invade us). Add in boeing getting a bit worried the 777 needs grounding (alot of annoyed operators) so they spin some junk about a hijack.

 

Bottom line, it's in the drink somewhere, I'm more worried about the 20000 Russian troops sitting on the Ukraine boarder and my impending next gas bill

Edited March 17, 2014 by tooting

[dmwalker 613]

The moderators might as well close this thread anyway so we can have just one unified topic "Malaysian Flight 370" which is already in parallel with this one.

[IAF747 8]

I worked out why the airliner flew west south west.

 

It was to avoid flying over land of Thailand.

 

I suspect this hijacking/theft of a 777 was extremely well planned.

 

I believe that calculations would have been made to ensure the pirates/terrorists had enough fuel to go where they needed to go.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/17/lawmaker-missing-airliner-may-have-landed-in-southeast-asia-for-use-as-weapon/

I'd also love to know what the manifest was... but Malaysian have done well to keep flying. I know in my airline ops room. First thing we do in an incident is shut the systems down so data cannot be sent anywhere or manipulated. Second, quite simply you keep flying the programme sched as normal, otherwise your airline Is done. Malaysian have done both very well

 

Agreed Rob.. decompression, either rapid or slow. Power to acars and satcomm goes off

 

 

They descended to 10k as per driftdown erops (most people on here won't understand) and head to an era (enroute alternate) in order not to get a wet footprint. Oxygen fails in f/d for whatever reason, hypoxia sets In. Aircraft goes in the drink. Simple. You ask most qualified people. They will go for that.

 

Add in the Malaysians don't want to admit their radars a bit cheap and crap, and the military's radar was asleep. (Come invade us). Add in boeing getting a bit worried the 777 needs grounding (alot of annoyed operators) so they spin some junk about a hijack.

 

Bottom line, it's in the drink somewhere, I'm more worried about the 20000 Russian troops sitting on the Ukraine boarder and my impending next gas bill

 

Malaysia doesn't have a cheap military. Well compared to NZ anyway....

 

They have Sukhois, MiG29s, F/A-18s.....

 

And US radar had problems picking up the hijacked A/C on 911 too..... Didn't they?

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Rarely I disagree with you Matty but I'm all out here!

 

I think NZ needs to pull its own weight.

 

I think some people totally miss the point with having an Air Force.

 

What it come down to is the cost of maintaining a jet fighter fleet. Even if New Zealand bought used F-16 for a low price, the cost in maintaining that fleet would be a large undertaking for the small population that lives here. When you have 4.5 Million people just over half of that population is working and contributing as the rest is either students, retired, minimum wages earners, or below the poverty line or unemployable. So we are talking about roughly 3 million people that are currently paying for defence forces. 

 

The quality of the defence forces in New Zealand is quite high as the personnel receives very good training, and is proven in battle many times over. It is just that their isn't enough tax base to pay for high ticket items like Jet Fighters. If the population of New Zealand gets over 10 million one day then maybe. But for now the tax base isn't big enough to support it.

[ZKOKQ 986]

 

 

Malaysia doesn't have a cheap military. Well compared to NZ anyway....

Correct, but we have an airline that makes a profit.