Things I've noticed with the NGX

[Alpha Floor 237]

At what height do you aim to be fully configured? 1.200 ft AGL, F15, 200 kts IAS and no L/G yet?

 

If it's the "typical" ILS approach with glide slope intercept altitude at 2000', 6nm from the runway, I'd like to proceed like this:

 

- Within 25-30nm from the airport flying at clean maneuvering speed 

- On the downwind leg at Flaps 5 and FL5 speed + 10 knots

- Turning to base I'd want to be already leveled at 2000' feet, select FL15 and decelerate to FL15 speed + 10 knots

- 9 miles out I want to be fully stable at 2000' with FL15 + 10 knots, gear up, speedbrake down (or armed)

- When the GS comes alive: gear down, flaps 20 and Vref+5 (or wind correction) knots on the MCP

- When the GS is one dot above, flaps 30 

- At GS intercept, airplane flying at Vref+5, gear down and flaps 30.

- The approach must be completely stabilized when descending through 1000' AGL, ideally stabilized before passing the FAF.

 

This would be the "ideal" case. Now, in real life you might have heavy traffic, ATC might give you a vector as a shortcut to final, winds can change etc... Using speedbrakes when needed is fine. Using the gear only if it's not "my fault", I mean, if the fact that I have to extend the gear is not due to poor descent planning. If it is my "fault", then I'd consider holding or asking for a route extension while I descend and slow down safely. If I'd continue the approach I'd have very high odds of flying an unstabilized ILS approach.

[3mta3 14]

 

While this is not the case here, just because someone flies the plane doesn't mean they know everything about it.  Granted, there's a lot of training that they receive, but I have friends who fly the same types and you can definitely tell one of them paid a lot more attention in class than the other.

 

To some, it's just a job; to others, it's a passion.

I couldn't agree more with this point.  Sometimes on the line you see some very poor examples of "professional" pilots.  That is why the fleet newsletters read like they are written for a 5th grader, reminding them to respect the VLO which is placarded right by the gear handle.  And training is dumbed down for this reason as well.  I suspect that many of you are more knowledgeable about some aspects of the NG than the unmotivated seat warmer sitting in the jet 80hours a month - following the magenta line to his next destination as he reads the newspaper. 

 

Currently I am flying real world very little, much less than I need to stay proficient, legalities aside.  I discovered the NGX from a friend and found the simulation accurate enough, and the FMC behavior acceptable enough to use to "keep my mind in the game."  I have a world Jepp subscription on my iPad, and am amazed that I can use current charts and a current Airac in a home simulation.  I have renewed my sim hobby that has progressed to amazing levels since I last tried it and was soon frustrated by the crappy instruments, inability to properly trim the aircraft and outdated nav database.

 

Now another coworker has built a similar triple monitor setup like I have and we all are doing a little "flying" between our infrequent real flights.  I've also found this setup great to scout a new destination, recently had a trip to Brazil, and did a bunch of NGX flying there before leaving - felt like a local when I actually flew down there in the jet.

 

Anyway, guys keep simming - and those of you with the passion - we are going to need people like you to fly these jets - most of us currently doing it will be retired in the next 20 years.

 

Jon Rock

[Christopher Low 5,359]

Thanks for the clarification, Jon. That would seem to provide a nice reason why Capt Zaharie (and others) would have flight simulators in their own homes, in addition to the obvious bonus of it being a lot of fun!

[3mta3 14]

I've had a talk with Ryan about landing gear. He told that this bug is caused by FSX and suggested to uncheck "aircraft stress causes damage" box in FSX as will allow to extend gear at 270kt.

I will give this a try - however I think I did have that box set so "aircraft stress causes damage"  - and the gear didn't come down when I extended it at 270kts - so it seems as a "test flight" is in my future.

 

I have, however, recently changed that setting because I had more than one flight ruined as the aircraft was 'overstressed" from a REX weather update in cruise flight causing the airspeed to jump well overspeed "crashing" the flight.  Uggh, so to prevent that from happening I went in and cleared that box (aircraft stress causes damage), as I don't typically do acro in the NGX!.

Thanks for the clarification, Jon. That would seem to provide a nice reason why Capt Zaharie (and others) would have flight simulators in their own homes, in addition to the obvious bonus of it being a lot of fun!

Exactly.  I'm probably like most of you hoping there was no crew involvment in that flight disappearance.  When I first saw his home sim setup I was a little envious, and immediately assumed that a guy with that much passion for aviation couldn't possibly have anything to do with taking the jet.

[serviceceiling 135]

@3mta3: Forget about REX, you should get either AS Next or FSRGW -  both are two decent and accurate weather engines that you'll never have any problems with.

[Spin737 102]

 

 

- Within 25-30nm from the airport flying at clean maneuvering speed

 

"SearsPoncho 213, say airspeed."

 

I think you'd get yelled at at most airports in the US, if you did that.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I think you'd get yelled at at most airports in the US, if you did that.

 

Probably.

 

With ATC, it's all relative.  They wouldn't fuss is everyone else is doing the same thing, but that's unlikely.  As long as the speeds aren't too different, it's not a huge deal.

 

A 30-40 knots difference might seem like a lot, but if there's a decent amount of separation, it's not a huge deal.  It'll allow you to tighten that gap up to fit a few more people in behind the speedster, as long as he or she pulls it back as they get closer (and an ATCO would pay attention to that such that they'd ensure the pilot reduced as part of normal procedure, or they'd prompt it with a "reduce speed" command of some sort).

 

I look for anything from 220-180 on the "downwind leg" (not literally - example: between BARIN and TRING on the BARIN arrival into IAD, landing south) from pilots.  Those are just notional values, though.  When controlling, it's all about the full picture.

[Alpha Floor 237]

"SearsPoncho 213, say airspeed."

 

I think you'd get yelled at at most airports in the US, if you did that.

 

You mean that because it's too low or too high of a speed? Or because it's not a "defined" speed as CMS for every aircraft is different? I'd say CMS in a 737 is around 200 for a normal landing weight?

 

Depends on the airport and the particular ATC. Some controllers ask you to keep the speed up to 180 even as close as 5 miles out of the runway (for instance, LEMD) and adjust speed on short final, Other airports with RNAV transitions ask you to slow down in steps of 190, 170 and even 160 while still 15nm out or more (EDDF and Germany in general).

 

Anyway, the procedure I outlined before is kind of an "ideal" thing with perfect weather and no traffic around. Every approach is different.

 

PS: Is that a real poncho?, I mean is that a Mexican Poncho or a Sears poncho?

[No Ice 3]

 

Also - just a query, why would you have a 15kt tailwind on finals may I ask? My approach may not work in this case....I wouldn't know as I am pretty old school and try to land into the wind, not with it

 

Malaga Runway 13 is a good example of when you can have a large tailwind on approach. It's right on the coast and you can often run with a 15kt tailwind all the way down until a few hundred feet until you hit the sea-breeze. With a 3.2 glideslope on runway 13 the landing Gear is often needed early to bring the speed back.

 

 

 

Shifty 

[M_Sauce 6]

 

While this is not the case here, just because someone flies the plane doesn't mean they know everything about it.  Granted, there's a lot of training that they receive, but I have friends who fly the same types and you can definitely tell one of them paid a lot more attention in class than the other.

 

Not to mention, after a few type courses, you get them mixed up a bit. Throw in good old-age and a little long-haul-pilot desease, and it gets kind of ugly what you can and can't remember.

 

:lol:

 

At what height do you aim to be fully configured? 1.200 ft AGL, F15, 200 kts IAS and no L/G yet?

 

Usualy dictated by FDAP. Don't want to ding it and get invited up to the carpeted floors to explain.

[Spin737 102]

 

 

You mean that because it's too low or too high of a speed? Or because it's not a "defined" speed as CMS for every aircraft is different? I'd say CMS in a 737 is around 200 for a normal landing weight?

At the earliest, I start to slow from 250 at 20nm and that's on the conservative side at my airline.

 

I've never flown in Europe, so I'll defer to someone who has for when to slow.

 

 

Hmmm. No foolin'?

 

[Fabo 213]

Some airports execute speed control that might have you slow down as early. But normally you wouldn't do that.

[Jack C 8]

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[Jack C 8]

Double post

[tombeckett2285 7]

Some of the opinions on descent planning etc seem very idealistic, in RW ops it is not unusual to be kept higher than the 'optimum' descent profile, and utilising all of the options open to you to put the aircraft in the slot and stabilised by your SOP gate is not 'the wrong way' to do things. On VATSIM if there is not much traffic around and no ATC I will often perform high speed approaches, often keeping it at 270kts to 15nm then allow the speed to bleed off, gear and flaps (flaps 15 is your friend!) as appropriate and be spooled up, flaps 30 and on profile at 1000'. It makes good practice and keeps you trying to think in front of the aircraft.

 

 

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