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pcubine

ASN and PFPX Winds Aloft

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I posted this reply in the PMDG General Forum in reply to Flight Planning with PFPX and the 737/777. I am posting it here since some people probably don't read both forums.

 

"This procedure applies only to the 777 since PFPX has the capability to export winds aloft and the 777 FMC can import those winds. Correct me if I am wrong. Once a route has been built by PFPX and exported, it goes to MyDocuments/Flight Simulator X Files, PMDG/FLIGHTPLANS/777, and PMDG/WX. So the winds aloft in WX are from PFPX and are allegedly forecasted winds for the time you will arrive at a particular waypoint in your route. Next you load the flight plan into ASN. This is then exported to WX automatically. The ASN winds are a snapshot of the current winds aloft. They have over written the PFPX winds in WX. Now do the export procedure again. The ASN winds in WX will be over written by the PFPX winds and will eventually be imported into the 777 FMC.

 

So it is a question of which winds do you want to use. Snapshot (ASN) or forecast (PFPX). I used both last fall but for the past 6 months I have used PFPX winds. I don’t remember what ASN winds were like in terms of a destination ETA at TOC on a 12-16 hour flight. I know PFPX winds provide a reasonably close ETA estimate like maybe 0-20 minutes. Time acceleration will effect this comparison because you are arriving at waypoints when the forecasted winds are relatively recent".


Michael Cubine
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Interesting find. Curious, how are you so sure this is what is happening? I've always entered my routes manually but If what you say is true then I guess I will be using the route uplink feature when SP1 is released after all.


Bryan Richards

 

"People depend so much on automation that they forget how to get the automation to work." B.W.

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What I do is tell PFPX to use Active Sky for the weather data.


Wes Meyer

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I have found ASN doesn't recognize some entries, like North Atlantic Tracks. PFPX only recognizes the format 54N040W while ASN only recognizes N54W040

 

That is why after building the plan with PFPX I always copy it into FSBuild and make any chances like above, then export that to ASN.

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What I do is tell PFPX to use Active Sky for the weather data.

I also tell PFPX to use Active Sky for weather data but there are two different sets of winds aloft kicking around.

ASN's snapshot of current winds and PFPX's forecast of future winds. Which do you want in the FMC? I am doing an EDDF-KDFW flight right now. It shows an ETA of 1328Z at KDFW (Rwy 17C) using PFPX winds 35 minutes into the flight. I will let you know in about 10 hours what the actual arrival time is.


Michael Cubine
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I've been using PFPX.

 

Pros:

  1. It's a forecast. Trips don't take 0 hours to fly.
  2. 1 button export to all formats including FMC CoRoute, FMC Wind Data import (legs), Topcat, Other aircraft, skyvector, vatsim, the kitchen sink and ActiveSky Next (Waypoints for Activesky to plot your route, not waypoints to make activesky create a text file which you then manually export to overwrite the file PFPX just made)

Disadvantages:

None?

apart from "Using PFPX method results in less button clicking and time wasting and more editing text files so I feel happy that I'm using an older technique that used to be required long ago but is essentially obsolete now."

 

 

Step 1: Make PFPX flightplan and export it into every format known to man

Step 2: Open FSX etc

Step 3: Open ActiveSky Next

Step 4: Open flightplan exported from PFPX into ActiveSky next so it knows where you are going

Step 5: don't export anything from ActiveSky next, just let it run

Step 6: press "File Flight Plan" on the VATSIM prefile page

Step 7: Connect to vatsim

Step 8: fly the plane.

 

Use PFPX to run the flightplan and FMC

Use ActiveSky Next to change the things you can see out the window of your plane.

 

Sometimes I'm even just opening ActiveSky next, importing/exporting nothing at all, and just letting it run in the background, essentially forgotten (but appreciated when the weather is awesome).

 

Step 1: Open ActiveSky Next

Step 2: Minimize ActiveSky Next

Step 3: Fly

Step 4: Stop flying

Step 5: 4 days later when you turn off the computer, select "Force Shutdown" on ActiveSky next so the computer can continue shutting down because you forgot to turn ActiveSky next off for the last 4 days.


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Trent Hopkinson, 2015 Crewmember of www.mangrove.com.au WorldFlight sim

          Youtube channel www.youtube.com/user/musicalaviator

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I realize the ASN method is less accurate, I have also used PFPX live data. The bug where you cant re-export the WX because 777 has locked the file should be fixed in SP1, then I will use PFPX only.


Wes Meyer

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Hello Wes,

 

I'd like to make a correction here. ASN actually does export to T7 (or any external addon) the forecast winds aloft at the ETA. This can be easily shown in the briefing page (where the winds at the ETA are shown). A couple of notes here:

 

- Forecast aloft wind data are published in 6 hour cycles, so to actually see any differences between the current conditions page and what the briefing page reports (as the winds at the ETA), a long haul should be created/imported. 

 

- Discrepancies between what ASN reports and what the flight planner report are IMO mostly due to interpolation. ASN uses interpolation between reporting stations/data points, whereas flight planners commonly take the closest source data only (I can verify this for FSBuild, not 100% certain how PFPX works). In addition, ASN uses "vertical" interpolation (what we call "interlayer"), to give an even more precise representation of the winds the aircraft will encounter if the cruise altitude is in between raw data layers. The latter of course doesn't affect the raw data that are inserted into the aircraft FMC.

 

If you have any indications that ASN does not work as designed, please report the specific cases and we can discuss it. Thanks,


Kostas Terzides

 

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I also tell PFPX to use Active Sky for weather data but there are two different sets of winds aloft kicking around.

 

 Not sure, if I understand this right. If PFPX is pointing to the current weather snapshot of ASN, then how it can export a different winds aloft data than ASN ... I am sure you have cross compared between ASN briefing page and the wx file... ?


Regards,

Suvo

A firm landing in the TDZ is a good one, a smooth landing outside the TDZ is bad. A smooth touchdown is NOT the criterion for a safe landing

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I realize the ASN method is less accurate, I have also used PFPX live data. The bug where you cant re-export the WX because 777 has locked the file should be fixed in SP1, then I will use PFPX only.

On the runway at 1330Z. 2 minutes late thanks to ATC speed reductions. Are you talking about a bug in the FMC or the folder PMDG/WX?

 

Step 4: Open flightplan exported from PFPX into ActiveSky next so it knows where you are going

 

Step 5: don't export anything from ActiveSky next, just let it run

I believe ASN exports the data automatically to PMDG/WX without any action on your part.

 

Not sure, if I understand this right. If PFPX is pointing to the current weather snapshot of ASN

I don't believe PFPX gets the winds from ASN. The forecast in PFPX comes from a different source. Although in the end every thing comes from AWC. However, if what Kostas says in post #8 is accurate, it makes no difference which winds are used in the FMC. They should both be pretty much the same.


Michael Cubine
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I believe ASN exports the data automatically to PMDG/WX without any action on your part.

 

 

If you are talking about the wind predictions for fuel/enroute time data in the FMC, then no, it does not.

 

If you are talking about making it windy & cloudy etc outside the window? then yes, it does. regardless of if you are using the PMDG 777, Captain Sim 757, Default C172, or a free "cameron" add-on hot-air balloon downloaded from the file library


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Trent Hopkinson, 2015 Crewmember of www.mangrove.com.au WorldFlight sim

          Youtube channel www.youtube.com/user/musicalaviator

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kterz, on 19 May 2014 - 9:45 PM, said:kterz, on 19 May 2014 - 9:45 PM, said:

Hello Wes,

 

I'd like to make a correction here. ASN actually does export to T7 (or any external addon) the forecast winds aloft at the ETA. This can be easily shown in the briefing page (where the winds at the ETA are shown). A couple of notes here:

 

- Forecast aloft wind data are published in 6 hour cycles, so to actually see any differences between the current conditions page and what the briefing page reports (as the winds at the ETA), a long haul should be created/imported. 

 

- Discrepancies between what ASN reports and what the flight planner report are IMO mostly due to interpolation. ASN uses interpolation between reporting stations/data points, whereas flight planners commonly take the closest source data only (I can verify this for FSBuild, not 100% certain how PFPX works). In addition, ASN uses "vertical" interpolation (what we call "interlayer"), to give an even more precise representation of the winds the aircraft will encounter if the cruise altitude is in between raw data layers. The latter of course doesn't affect the raw data that are inserted into the aircraft FMC.

 

If you have any indications that ASN does not work as designed, please report the specific cases and we can discuss it. Thanks,

Hi Kostas 

 

I was only going off what others actually said, when they said ASN was snapshot and PFPX was forecast. I have actually been slaving PFPX to ASN because I wanted PFPX to use the ASN data directly. If you are saying that ASN is using the same data as PFPX, then it does not matter what source you use, correct?

 

The bug I mentioned is in the PMDG777 where once you have imported (requested) wind data on legs page, the PMDG .wx file is locked and can no longer be changed by ASN or PFPX. This is one of the things fixed in SP1, so then we can update our .wx file in flight.

 

I have never had any issues with ASN and it has always worked perfectly as designed!! :)

 

Regards

 

Wes

 

EDIT: I realize I said "ASN method less accurate" this was wrong choice of words, apologies.


Wes Meyer

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If you are talking about the wind predictions for fuel/enroute time data in the FMC, then no, it does not.

 

Read the quote you made of my post. I didn't say ASN sent it to the FMC. I said it sends the wind data to PMDG/WX. And who said anything about fuel/enroute time?


Michael Cubine
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Read the quote you made of my post. I didn't say ASN sent it to the FMC. I said it sends the wind data to PMDG/WX. And who said anything about fuel/enroute time?

 

Is "PMDG" a term that, in this case, can be substituted for the term "Default Cessna"? 

 

or at least "Default Cessna with Bryn's Weather Radar Gauge installed"?

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/442414-my-asn-weather-radar-gauge-for-fsx-p3d


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Trent Hopkinson, 2015 Crewmember of www.mangrove.com.au WorldFlight sim

          Youtube channel www.youtube.com/user/musicalaviator

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Is "PMDG" a term that, in this case, can be substituted for the term "Default Cessna"?

 

 

PMDG is a folder just like WX. Any route that is loaded into ASN no matter what the plane is automatically sent to PMDG/WX. So like you write, you can see any type of route wind data for any plane in WX. You can only use data for the PMDG 777 because it is the only plane that can import that wind data from WX into the FMC. I would imagine that is why it is in the PMDG/WX folder and why the folder is not named "Default Cessna".

If you are talking about the wind predictions for fuel/enroute time data in the FMC, then no, it does not.

 

 

Try this. Before loading a route into ASN, go to PMDG/WX and see if there is a WX file pertaining to the route. There is not. Load the route into ASN and immediately go back to the PMDG/WX folder. The WX file for that route is in the folder. I just tried this with the MD-11. It's useless but it's there.


Michael Cubine
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