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Selecting my first second airliner

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I'm interested in buying the best two add on airliners. But I won't get both at once so even future releases can be of interest. Also the two planes should not be very similar but offer different challanges and experiences.Important factors for me1) Good documentation2) Clear and easy to read panels (also on a 17" CRT)3) Easy on framerates (at least the first one because)I now have Athlon XP 2400+ Powercolor Radeon 9800 Pro 128 M 512 M RAM 333 MHzI'm conseidering an upgradeFirst 512 M to 1 GbSecond replace motherboard and get a Athlon 64 CPU with 1 Gb RAMOr getting a bigger better monitorWhat is the best choices before and after each suggested upgrades?

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I've migrated away from airliners as of late in favor of GA aircraft, but I'd say that the PMDG 737 and LDS 767 likely would meet your goals. Someone else with your current specs will have to chime in and say if they work with these aircraft--I know your upgrade path should work with no issues.-John

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I would suggest upgrading the memory from 512mb to 1Gb for openers as that's probably going to require the least investment of the options that you've listed. I recently upgraded displays from a 17" NEC LCD (analog) to a 19"Xerox using digital output and while I love the larger display, I can't say that there is a significant increase in performance althought the Xerox does run at 75hrz rather than the 60hrz of the NEC.I didn't have really any trouble reading the display on the 17".Hope that's of some use.Ed GreenKCLThttp://www.panelshop.com/DEV.jpg

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>I'm interested in buying the best two add on airliners.Well, I own both LevelD 767 and MDMax MD80 (sure they are different airliners :);you will find plenty of people here praising LDS767 (and it really deserves), so I will talk to you about MDMax :)1) The documentation is really good; it comprises procedure guide (+checklists), flight techniques (+tutorial flight), and panel guide. It lacks Abnormal Procedures, Fuel planning, and a bit deeper technical description of airplane systems;2) The panel is designed for a resolution of 1600x1200. As LDS767, it requires a resolution of at least 1280x1960 to remain crisp and enjoyable;3) The panel is really easy on framerates. My rig is similar to your, so you won't have problems with it;Bear in mind that MDMax is not a "start engines and fly" product. Just the cockpit preparation requires at least 30 minutes (even without FMC programming), and real time passenger and fuel loading is simulated (although it can be accelerated if you want);Other good things:.Systems modeling is the best and most complex I've ever seen. Some things simulated are:Hot starts;Brake overheat;Controls and engines failures due to icy conditions;Different tire friction with runway conditions;Every single light on the panel can be dimmed separately;.Autolanding implementation is PERFECT, even in crosswind conditions, alignment and crab-out is real good;The bad things:.Gauges refresh is poor, especially if compared with LDS767 that is perfect in this sense. I think it's the most important issue to address, and hope developers will tackle it;.As for now, FMC, detailed external model (and sounds), and additional liveries are not available yet. They will have to be bought separately, so the "total" price is a bit too high;.Most initial and important bugs have been resolved, but there is still some (although minor) bugs;MDMax is a "love-it or hate-it" product. If you are very concerned on highly detailed external model, VC, and sounds, avoid MDMax for now; if you're looking for a top airline flying experience, don't miss it;In my opinion, MDMax, along with LDS767, are the most realistic airliners and able to give the closest experience to that of a real pilot.(I'm not in any way related to MDMax developers, just a happy user who think MDMax deserves more than it's getting :)

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>I'm interested in buying the best two add on airliners.Well, I own both LevelD 767 and MDMax MD80 (sure they are different airliners :);you will find plenty of people here praising LDS767 (and it really deserves), so I will talk to you about MDMax :)1) The documentation is really good; it comprises procedure guide (+checklists), flight techniques (+tutorial flight), and panel guide. It lacks Abnormal Procedures, Fuel planning, and a bit deeper technical description of airplane systems;2) The panel is designed for a resolution of 1600x1200. As LDS767, it requires a resolution of at least 1280x1960 to remain crisp and enjoyable;3) The panel is really easy on framerates. My rig is similar to your, so you won't have problems with it;Bear in mind that MDMax is not a "start engines and fly" product. Just the cockpit preparation requires at least 30 minutes (even without FMC programming), and real time passenger and fuel loading is simulated (although it can be accelerated if you want);Other good things:.Systems modeling is the best and most complex I've ever seen. Some things simulated are:Hot starts;Brake overheat;Controls and engines failures due to icy conditions;Different tire friction with runway conditions;Every single light on the panel can be dimmed separately;.Autolanding implementation is PERFECT, even in crosswind conditions, alignment and crab-out is real good;The bad things:.Gauges refresh is poor, especially if compared with LDS767 that is perfect in this sense. I think it's the most important issue to address, and hope developers will tackle it;.As for now, FMC, detailed external model (and sounds), and additional liveries are not available yet. They will have to be bought separately, so the "total" price is a bit too high;.Most initial and important bugs have been resolved, but there is still some (although minor) bugs;MDMax is a "love-it or hate-it" product. If you are very concerned on highly detailed external model, VC, and sounds, avoid MDMax for now; if you're looking for a top airline flying experience, don't miss it;In my opinion, MDMax, along with LDS767, are the most realistic airliners and able to give the closest experience to that of a real pilot.(I'm not in any way related to MDMax developers, just a happy user who think MDMax deserves more than it's getting :)

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>2) The panel is designed for a resolution of 1600x1200. As>LDS767, it requires a resolution of at least 1280x1960 to>remain crisp and enjoyable;>My current monitor can't handle these resolutions.>Bear in mind that MDMax is not a "start engines and fly"Where can I find it?

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Hi,my choices would be the Level-D 767 and the Dreamfleet 727.Graphically they are of the same style (photoreal panel), but quite different in function and instrumentation (high-tech FMS against VOR/ADF navigation. FMSPerformance on the computer is good for both (although the 727 EFIS style panel needs more resources than the classic analog panel).

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The LDS and PMDG are both top notch but similar in that they are both highy automated and modern. If you're looking for some variety and possibly some old school flying, the RFP 742 V2 is outstanding and I've heard nothing but great things about the DF727 as well.Jay EklundCAT V Second Officer KDENhttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/812321/764.png

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There are so many choices right now. If you are looking for framerate friendly then the DreamFleet 727 is a marvelous aircraft to fly. The LDS767-300 is next closely followed by the PMDG737NG. The worse of the lot for me is the ATR72-500 from FlightOne.All of these aircraft are very well modeled, look good and have extensive manuals which require a lot of ink or time or both to go through. I would recommend the LDS767 right now as it is the latest release and will fly almost anywhere you may want to go from 100 miles to over oceans. There are a few minor issues experienced by some buyers, of which, I have none.Each of these aircraft have their virtues and will stay in my active fleet for some time to go.

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>>2) The panel is designed for a resolution of 1600x1200. As>>LDS767, it requires a resolution of at least 1280x1960 to>>remain crisp and enjoyable;>>My current monitor can't handle these resolutions.>There's a typo error, I meant at least 1280x960, but 1280x1024 is also ok, of course.>>Bear in mind that MDMax is not a "start engines and fly">>Where can I find it?http://lnx.mdsuper80.com/

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>There are so many choices right now. If you are looking for>framerate friendly then the DreamFleet 727 is a marvelous>aircraft to fly. The LDS767-300 is next closely followed by>the PMDG737NG. The worse of the lot for me is the ATR72-500>from FlightOne.>If I would go for a boxed version what kind of printed documentationis included with LDS767-300 and DF727?>I would recommend the LDS767 right now as it is the latest>release and will fly almost anywhere you may want to go from>100 miles to over oceans. There are a few minor issues>experienced by some buyers, of which, I have none.>How does it compare to the new PMDG 737NG 800/900?

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Talking about the best, my opinion is nothing surprising I guess.Modern airliners: PMDG 737 (wait to see their 747 too), LDS 767Older airliners: RFP 747 & DF 727Turbo props: Flight1 ATR, (personally I also enjoy PSS dash8 very much although it's an old product and system simulation not so complex)Jason Zhang

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Hello; Might be out of line here since what I'm going to mention is FREEand its not a jet, but the FSDZigns L049 "connie" available in the AVSIMlibrary is spectacular. The "documentation" is extensive...FS Aviators "Propliner Tutorial"for openers, and much more available at Tom Gibsons website. Recip aircraft are more difficult to fly correctly, especially LARGEones, but give it a try. I did, as did several others here and I'd be willing to bet that they'd agree with me. Best part...cost zero. Myself..still can't believe something this GOOD is free. Thanks Guys DN

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I would agree with Murmer(sp?) above. I have both the MD-Max MD80 and the LDS B763. Regarding the real a/c, both are very different technologies (although both are in service with many airlines so realistic current-day flying can be simulated). Both are also designed for a different market (MD80 is short haul, B763 is medium haul a/c, also is the smallest "heavy").As to the simulation- if you like detail, MD-Max is for you. Both products are the best around in their respective classes, IMHO.I fly nothing else now but one of these 2 a/c. With this combo I can fly short flights, or medium-to-long flights.Bruce.

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>>>2) The panel is designed for a resolution of 1600x1200. As>>>LDS767, it requires a resolution of at least 1280x1960 to>>>remain crisp and enjoyable;>>>>My current monitor can't handle these resolutions.>>>There's a typo error, I meant at least 1280x960, but 1280x1024>is also ok, of course.>Still more than my monitor can handle. I would have to go to a refreshrate of 60 Hz if I wan't 1280*1024.Also if I increase the resolution from 1024*768 (I use that now)to 1280*1024 (current TFT screens) does this not mean more stress on the computer? How much does it affect framerates stutters?

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>Still more than my monitor can handle. I would have to go to a>refreshrate of 60 Hz if I wan't 1280*1024.>Also if I increase the resolution from 1024*768 (I use that>now)>to 1280*1024 (current TFT screens) does this not mean more>stress on the computer? How much does it affect framerates>stutters?Well, the problem is, most of hi-quality 3d-party a/c now requires high resolutions (1280 or higher), so you should consider a new monitor and maybe video card. MDMax panel can be used in 1024x768, but there is a loss of detail compared to, say, default 737. However all the readings remain readable, except for the stand-by altimeter.

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>Well, the problem is, most of hi-quality 3d-party a/c now>requires high resolutions (1280 or higher), so you should>consider a new monitor and maybe video card. MDMax panel can>be used in 1024x768, but there is a loss of detail compared>to, say, default 737. However all the readings remain>readable, except for the stand-by altimeter.>What about the other planes suggested in this thread? That isPMDG 737NG, RFP747 V2,LDS767, DF727. Would this problem be less (or more)significant regarding this issue about resolution?

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Actually, the RFP 747-200 is great but you have to be willing to patiently read a very long manual to even be ready to start the engines. But the manual is fairly clear and once you understand the procedures, you won't forget. The detail in the startup procedures with respect to the panel and fuel management and other aspects of the REady for Pushback is quite astounding!The PMDG 737NG is of course the other obvious choice that I know. Also, PMDG will be releasing the 747-400 Jumbo probably in the next few months so I would look into that as well but release date is yet unknown. However, it looks like a ground-breaking product with features never-before attempted and everyone is patiently waiting for it.The PSS Airbuses are not bad, but have more bugs in them then the PMDG and RFP (which have basically no bugs of any significance whatsoever). You need to get alternate flight dynamics from Pedro Oliveira (for the A320) and from Bob Scott (for the A330/A340) in order for the PSS Airbuses to function without issues. I've been flying them now with these alternate FDE's and they run fine but PSS charges for the liveries...Forgot to add: Yes the RFP 747 and the PMDG 737NG I run at 1024x768 and the panels are quite clear, although I'm sure they'll be even sharper at 1280x1024 or higher.John

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>Actually, the RFP 747-200 is great but you have to be willing>to patiently read a very long manual to even be ready to start>the engines. But the manual is fairly clear and once youDo we get some printed documentation (CD version) if so which and what documentation is only on the CD?>Forgot to add: Yes the RFP 747 and the PMDG 737NG I run at>1024x768 and the panels are quite clear, although I'm sure>they'll be even sharper at 1280x1024 or higher.>Fine then these two products seems more interesting than the other.

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PSS has their stuff on sale. I wanted a jet with FMC, so I could get ready for some of the new planes yet to come out, but I needed FPS-friendly planes, too. I got the A340 for ten bucks. It is FPS-friendly, it is not too tricky to fire up and go with, and it is a good intro to the world of FMC's. Great documentation. They have fixed the problems from the early reviews, too. Ten bucks. Wow. Now, I have to consider their 777 when it comes out, due to the positive experience the ten bucks got me.

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PDMG 737 and DF 727 are great - I haven't got the LDS 767 yet but plan to - probably will wait til after the patch is available

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Don't forget about the DC-9 by Flight1. It was originally for FS2002 but has been upgraded for FS9. It is very friendly on frame rates, has a good manual, and offers the old style of VOR and NDB flight with no FMC. It gives you the option of cold and dark startup or ready to taxi, so if you are short on time you can stil get a good flight in. It is fun to hand fly and has free liveries available to be used with the included text-o-matic livery installer. This plane much like the DF727 will keep you busy during the flight even when it is on autopilot. Have fun, and be safe.Scott

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