Sign in to follow this  
maukro_1990

PMDG 777-300ER - What is the actual range?

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone!

 

I´m a little bit confused about the actual range of the Boeing 777-300ER. I red that the -300ER has a range of about 7,930nm with 365 passengers. Yesterday, i tried to load up the weight of 380 passengers with their luggage (380x190lbs + 380x66lbs = 97280lbs). I loaded up about 11032lbs cargro into this aircraft, too. All together, i had a ZFW of 479500lbs. After that i wanted to fill my tanks with the needed fuel for my long flight from Duesseldorf (EDDL) to Jakarta (WIII) but for this 6068.5 nm flight, i could not load enough fuel. Hmm.... isn´t this strange? 

 

Or maybe it´s my fault! ... could someone tell me the actual range of the 777-300ER with the MZFW of 351500lbs?! Do i have to reduce the payload for this flight? I thought that the -300ER can handle this route without loading restrictions... 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hello everyone!

 

I´m a little bit confused about the actual range of the Boeing 777-300ER. I red that the -300ER has a range of about 7,930nm with 365 passengers. Yesterday, i tried to load up the weight of 380 passengers with their luggage (380x190lbs + 380x66lbs = 97280lbs). I loaded up about 11032lbs cargro into this aircraft, too. All together, i had a ZFW of 479500lbs. After that i wanted to fill my tanks with the needed fuel for my long flight from Duesseldorf (EDDL) to Jakarta (WIII) but for this 6068.5 nm flight, i could not load enough fuel. Hmm.... isn´t this strange?

 

Or maybe it´s my fault! ... could someone tell me the actual range of the 777-300ER with the MZFW of 351500lbs?! Do i have to reduce the payload for this flight? I thought that the -300ER can handle this route without loading restrictions...

The range at maximum takeoff weight is just less than 6000 nm. So you aren't doing anything wrong, just expecting too much from the aircraft. Range with 365 pax means just that. Baggage only, no cargo.

 

See these Boeing diagrams for full details.

 

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/startup/pdf/777_payload.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emirates operate DXB-SFO which is a smidge over 7000 miles.

 

No derate and APU-to-packs on takeoff lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emirates operate DXB-SFO which is a smidge over 7000 miles.

 

No derate and APU-to-packs on takeoff lol

I am sure they do. However, Emirates probably limits the payload so they can carry enough fuel to get to KSFO and safely get airborne from OMDB. It's a balancing act between payload, fuel required, runway length, OAT at origin, pressure, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, one of the reasons I hate it when people ask this question is that they don't truly understand what's going on behind the scenes.  They find some basic numbers, and assume that will work just fine for whatever they're doing, which isn't at all true.

 

Go run.  Write down how far you ran.

Go run with a 20 pound weight on your back.  Write down how far you ran.

 

Is there a difference?  Absolutely.  Why?  More weight requires more energy to move.  So how do aircraft escape this law of physics?  Well...they don't.

 

Fuel has weight and people have weight.  The problem is that burning people does me little good in keeping my aircraft moving forward, so I'll have to stick to burning fuel.  This means that, when it comes down to the fight between carrying more fuel or carrying more passengers, fuel always wins.

 

It takes more fuel to carry more weight.  If you reduce weight, you reduce fuel burn.  If you reduce fuel burn (measured in weight/hour), you get more theoretical range.

 

Example (nominal values):

MTOW Fuel Burn: 12,000 lbs/hr with 100,000 lbs of fuel ---> 8:20 of flight time (based on cruise only)

<MTOW Fuel Burn: 10,000 lbs/hr with 100,000 lbs of fuel ---> 10:00 of flight time (cruise only)

 

Kicking passengers and cargo out means I carry less overall weight (despite having the same weight in fuel).  This means I burn less fuel to continue flying.  In decreasing fuel burn, for the same amount of fuel, I can fly farther (of course, assuming zero, or a constant wind between the two examples).

 

 

 

As Kevin mentioned: you're expecting too much of the aircraft.  Additionally, you can't take nominal values and expect them to be accurate.  This is why dispatchers and fuel planners exist.  Nominal values are just that: nominal.  They give the common citizen an idea of what to expect.  No pilot puts any weight in that, though.  They look at the performance data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kicking passengers and cargo out means I carry less overall weight (despite having the same weight in fuel).  This means I burn less fuel to continue flying.  In decreasing fuel burn, for the same amount of fuel, I can fly farther (of course, assuming zero, or a constant wind between the two examples).

 

 

Don't forget, kicking passengers and cargo off means less money for you... I mean the airline. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget, kicking passengers and cargo off means less money for you... I mean the airline. 

 

Sure, but your options are:

Max out plane and not have the range; or ($0 gain)

Kick passengers off and have the range. (less theoretical $ gain compared to full, but definitely above $0)

 

...what's your call?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget, kicking passengers and cargo off means less money for you... I mean the airline.

Do you want to kick the passengers out and loose a small sum of money compared to what you would pay the survivors or the families of the dead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, but your options are:

Max out plane and not have the range; or ($0 gain)

Kick passengers off and have the range. (less theoretical $ gain compared to full, but definitely above $0)

 

...what's your call?

 

You (The Airline) need to find the sweet spot between range and payload, that's all I was trying to allude too (if this was a for profit situation, its the sim so i really could care less). 

 

Do you want to kick the passengers out and loose a small sum of money compared to what you would pay the survivors or the families of the dead?

 

Well that's a rather glass-half-empty way to look at things....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


You (The Airline) need to find the sweet spot between range and payload, that's all I was trying to allude too (if this was a for profit situation, its the sim so i really could care less). 

 

...which was my original point in the first place, but I absolutely agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Scandinavian13............allthough i am not a FSX user let alone PMDG777 user, i use the SkySpirit2012/POSKY 777-300ER and with it i can do about a 6500-6700nm trip at the most. This is for a 77W with 342 pax (assuming on average each pax weighs 175lbs) and about 23000lbs of baggage and cargo. Empty weight i have taken as 370000lbs. Hope i have answered your question. 

 

(P.S - I have adjusted the fuel flow scalars and the fuel flow gain along with bypass ratios)

Heres my config

 

[Modifications Removed - mods to our files is an unsupported use and can cause various errors in other functions of the product]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this