Goodbye FSX/P3D/XP a new Flight Simulator is in the house

[KingGhidorah 209]

Looks interesting, but definitely only for someone that is willing to dedicate screens to display 2d panels.  Doesn't look so good for people who require a virtual cockpit, which I'm guessing is most.

[CrewF16 26]

As said earlier this would be great for a systems enthusiast. Unless you have a full scale cockpit I do not see the joy in flying it. Every video I can find is of people operating the systems and no hand flying. Systems are great but hand flying a superb sim is the whip IMHO. 

[Dillon 2,197]

My apologies if my post was taken to 'stroke a flame war', that was not the original intent; each simulator (FSX/P3D/XP) has its strengths and weaknesses and I will continue to use each one alongside with PSX. 

 

 

For my part I never looked at this topic as a slam to other offerings out there.  For me (after using a real world Level-D sim of the actual 744) can't understand the allure of something like this.  80% of the experience is the cockpit environment.  Looking over out the windows, visually seeing where every switch is located based on where your sitting at in the cockpit, thanks to TrackIR moving your head to get the best angle of view for what your trying to do.  It would be like trying to drive a car with only a dash board and popups for your peddles on the floor or your turn signals.  Nothing like how it's done in the real world yet the price tag is $400.  With the technology we have today 2D trainers are no longer needed just like those early contraptions people used to sit in with someone behind them shaking them around.  Lockheed got in the game because of this very reason, the desktop sim Microsoft matured works very well for cockpit familiarization and systems training short of a full blown Level-D trainer.  From my point of view the actual NWA Level-D sim elevated my appreciation for PMDG.  An appreciation for what TrackIR, Virtual Cockpits, and an accurate world representation of the globe/all it's International/GA airports/topographical terrain features etc (which any aircraft has to account for during approach and departure).   It's utterly unrealistic to operate panels exclusively in the real world, things don't just pop up at you when you need them with a mouse click and you need to be able to look around.  You have to look down to adjust your radio frequencies, look up to turn on things like lights/APU/Electrical switches, scan outside the cockpit for situation awareness of other traffic, look out the windows to taxi.  If this was a mod to the PMDG VC this would be fantastic but a 2D offering that attaches to P3D/FSX for $400 is insane to me.   I get it more can be simulated which is always possible but you need a cockpit if you truly want to know the 744 or any aircraft.   

[OmniAtlas 93]

As said earlier this would be great for a systems enthusiast. Unless you have a full scale cockpit I do not see the joy in flying it. Every video I can find is of people operating the systems and no hand flying. Systems are great but hand flying a superb sim is the whip IMHO. 

 

I hand fly the simulator with no issues. The software was released less then a month ago (it has been in development for over 10 years), please give it some more time for more videos to come out. 

Again I've flown the actual Level-D sim and found my appreciation for PMDG that much more solidified.  It's utterly unrealistic to operate panels exclusively in the real world, things don't just pop up at you when you need them with a mouse click.  You have to look down to adjust your radio frequencies, look up to turn on things like lights/APU/Electrical switches, scan outside the cockpit for situation awareness of other traffic, look out the windows to taxi.  If this was a mod to the PMDG VC this would be fantastic but a 2D offering that attaches to P3D/FSX for $400 is insane to me.   I get it more can be simulated which is always possible but you need a cockpit if you truly want to know the 744 or any aircraft.   

 

Hi Dillon,

 

I guess thats why there is PMDG, and other software available for those who want that experience. PSX caters to my needs which seem to be completely opposite to yours

 

I've flown in a virtual cockpit before (NGX, Aerosoft Airbus, etc), up to on a 40" LCD screen, even with a TrackIR -- I found that experience completely unrealistic and unimmersive. 

 

You are correct about 'looking' around; I am planning to expand the 2D panel cockpit with several more (touch screen) LCDs, including an OVH which will be situationally placed.

 

 Here is my latest setup (and yes those screens are 2nd hand go them for $40 each, the visuals are on a projector) --

 

 

Please ignore the weather radar returns (OPUS on P3D was synched to realtime weather, and I loaded a situation file on the simulator). 

[ohsirus 241]

If you choose to fly it in FSX/XPX what Airplane do you choose, the default or does it provide custom FDEs like SIMAvio/PROSIM?

[Pe11e 812]

I can't believe that some simmers mix apples and oranges here. FSX is a flight simulator for the masses. Means you can find add-on that will match your vision of realism perfectly. From default 737-800 up to PMDG NGX, your choice. 

PSX on the other hand is something different... a full blown 747 simulator for professional use. Full system simulation, no remorse. It is not for every FSX simmer out there. And the price, considering the depth of simulation (can't be deeper I suppose) is acceptable.

[MarkW 1,493]

I would have to think that PMDG's 747 V2 will match all of the systems with better graphics and experience with a VC, FSX world, etc.  

[Pe11e 812]

I would have to think that PMDG's 747 V2 will match all of the systems with better graphics and experience with a VC, FSX world, etc.  

 

No even close. Simply because FSX isn't designed for that, and can't handle full blown sim. That's why on some pro simulators FSX is used only for visuals.

[Dillon 2,197]

No even close. Simply because FSX isn't designed for that, and can't handle full blown sim. That's why on some pro simulators FSX is used only for visuals.

 

 

If that's the case I wonder why Lockheed Martin took on basically the exact same engine and further developed it for professional use... :ph34r:  

 

XP10 is nothing to sneeze at either when pared with the right hardware... 

[Pe11e 812]

If that's the case I wonder why Lockheed Martin took on basically the exact same engine and further developed it for professional use... :ph34r:

 

XP10 is nothing to sneeze at either when pared with the right hardware...

 

It's not about engine, it's all about code. LM has the entire FSX source code in their hands, and it is very possible now for them to expand the code to be ready for PSX like simulators.

[OmniAtlas 93]

If you choose to fly it in FSX/XPX what Airplane do you choose, the default or does it provide custom FDEs like SIMAvio/PROSIM?

 

Hi Ohsirus, if you use FSX/P3D as your scenery generator you can use the default 747. I am using the POSKY 747. I am not too sure about Xplane. 

[JRBarrett 3,080]

Hi Ohsirus, if you use FSX/P3D as your scenery generator you can use the default 747. I am using the POSKY 747. I am not too sure about Xplane.

The XView plugin, which provides connectivity between PSX and XP10, is designed to work best with a special customized version of the default X-Plane 747-400.

 

That optimized model is included in the XView installation package.

[Djang0 1]

I've been following the development of PSX over the last few months. As a systems fanatic I think it's one of the best simulations of any modern airliner out there - e.g. the circuit breaker panel )). Plus there isn't the kind of b*** ***t marketing techniques used by some other developers on their support forum! Unfortunately since there are, apparently, no plans for PSX to include the 748 in the future, I'm more interested in the 777 or other fly-by-wire airliners. But is is very tempting!

[OmniAtlas 93]

I've been following the development of PSX over the last few months. As a systems fanatic I think it's one of the best simulations of any modern airliner out there - e.g. the circuit breaker panel )). Plus there isn't the kind of b*** ***t marketing techniques used by some other developers on their support forum! Unfortunately since there are, apparently, no plans for PSX to include the 748 in the future, I'm more interested in the 777 or other fly-by-wire airliners. But is is very tempting!

 

I would give PSX a try if you are into the details of the system modelling, and you want the most accurate representation of a simulation. PMDG is great, but PSX takes it to a whole new level. 

 

The built in ATC also just "works"; no fumbling around -- if you have an issue its more of your problem of not knowing the systems of the aircraft, and not the software!

 

Add-ons are already being developed (no issues with flying on vatsim/ivao online) and it has compatibility with the major cockpit vendors. I give it a 10/10. 

[funkyhut1 7]

As a comparatively small community of simulator enthusiasts or addicts, we have been really lucky.

I'm sure all of us appreciate what developers in this field have done to keep our hobby alive. The risks must be high and with a few exceptions, the returns marginal. That is of course unless the developer has an altruistic approach and sees part of his or her return in the form of intangible appreciation. But appreciation does not put bread on the table and there are sites which steal to contend with. Its a tough space to be operating in and hats off to those that are and persist.

In 1997. PS1 came into a market when the 744 was in full production and dominated the sky's. It also arrived at a time when the only simulator of note for enthusiasts was from Microsoft; FS 98. When PS1 arrived it did so with no competition. For the hobbyist it was a significant chunk of change. But here on the desktop was a Boeing 747 which you could fly and feel you were in command of the real thing. The biggest airliner in the world was yours. Hard to believe it was a DOS program! Apart from FS98 we (I) had Elite which had just been approved by the FAA as a simulator which could count towards IFR currency but it was limited to GA airplanes. I used to keep IFR sharp for the real world of flying a 172 IFR in the Bay Area.

For airlines and ATP schools, desperate at the time for ways to teach “Glass” and find cheaper ways than the FFS to transition people to the New World Reality, PS1 was an unbelievable 'gift' and accepted widely into the professional community. The accolades from the current Aerowinx website are testament to that.

Now fast forward to 2014.

FS 98 is now FSX and Prepar3d. And X-Plane 10 has arrived too, being the first to break the 4GB limit of 32 bit systems. All can handle pretty darned good attempts at simulating the big jets. PMDG have the MD 11, the 747, the 737 in many variants, and now the 777 and variants. The FMC's are pretty sophisticated and many systems work as in the real world; pretty much. Hats off and thank you to PMDG for all that. The cost of the add on's runs from $30 to $90 and expect higher in the future. In my FSX set up I'm scared to count the cost of all the stuff I have added! PMDG are promising that some of their add on's will soon (?) run on P3D also and maybe even X-Plane. Basically, for the hobbyist, flying heavy metal is here and pretty immersive too. Eye candy development is pretty sophisticated too on all 3 platforms (ASN, ORBX, FS2Crew to mention just 3 of many). Of course there are many other quality developers in the FSX space and the keen enthusiasts all have their favorites. The diversity is great and benefits us all.

On simulator systems, it's generally regarded that FSX is dead. Sure, Dovetail have bought it and have said they will release it as a new 'game' in the near future. For the hobbyist, FSX was never a game. We must be patient and wait to see what develops from Dovetail who right now are not saying too much. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

P3D holds a future for sure even if only because Lockheed Martin are at the helm. Version 2.3 is already streets ahead of the Acceleration release of FSX. It still runs 32bit so VAS will always be a serious consideration for developers of complex add on's but we are 'told' that 64bit is on the horizon. Also the ability to work within the limitations of the underlying simulator code must also be seen as a restriction. The recent release of the Majestic Q400, supposedly built largely outside the FSX / P3D framework, is maybe good news and shows what is possible if a developer stretches the boundaries. Is the Q400 a 'stand alone' which uses the underlying simulator for views?

X-Plane has removed the VAS issues by being 64bit but lacks the 3^rd party developer support which exits in FSX and P3D. It has a really great support community with a ton of great free stuff, a lot of which is really good and transforms it to being a close eye candy rival to the others. Slowly it is getting some of the big jets but so far, not to the PMDG quality level, even though some (777 and 747-8) run quite close.

Out in the real world changes since 1997 have been huge. Boeing have the 777 and 787 and Airbus the A330, A380 (flown basically with a keyboard and mouse?) and soon the A350 followed by the 737 MAX and 777X. With new arrivals we also have departures. Almost daily we see airlines writing their own sad but appreciative eulogies for the 744. Other than as freighters, the 744-8's future look quite bleak too.

This is the real and simulator world into which Hardy Heinlin has brought PSX but what is PSX? I'm probably going way out on a limb here and if so will be shot down no doubt but here goes.

PSX is unique because Hardy has made a simulator which is equally at home with hobbyists looking for the 'real thing' and processionals looking for a tool to support them at work. That in and of itself is a great achievement! (PMDG, please note this when you set your P3D pricing!)

PSX is a simulator which allows an airplane (1) to operate realistically in a ground and air environment. It has navigation, ATC and weather built in so that the airplane can connect and interact and in the process get realistically from A to B.

PSX is a complete simulation of the Boeing 747-400 and variants and the only one on a PC to do so by simulating everything from the real airplane. Master PSX and you could probably move right into a FFS and do a half decent job in there at first crack.

When I read the forums, which I do a lot, there are many threads suggesting that the 'hobby' needs a new platform, built from the ground up, for the big jets. Some even suggest that PMDG could do that.

Here again I'm assuming too much and that is dangerous but maybe the base of PSX has the possibility to support more current (in the real world) airplanes? I have no idea, just as I have no idea of the current viability of PSX in the professional environment with the 747-400 declining and going into retirement. Maybe PSX is so good as a systems and procedures trainer, it has a niche and a long life in the professional environment. I really hope so. Also the 744 is said to have at least 6 more years left before moving to the Smithsonian.

For the hobbyist, the fact that the 744 is disappearing makes no difference really and I for one, am totally appreciative that Hardy even makes his work available for us amateurs AND spends so much time in the forum helping us all. The chance to fly a 744 like this at a price which is just about affordable but well well below reasonable, is a privilege and I add my thanks to Hardy and the people who helped him deliver PS1 and now PSX.

Some are already asking which is better; FSX/P3D/XP10 or PSX. Amazing really.

If you go back to 2004 you will find much the same in the form of PS1 vs PMDG 744. PS1 was out and the 744 was coming "soon". Now it's PSX is out and v2 is coming "soon". Absolutely no reason to say much here because it was all said back then.

For me, PSX is amazing on steroids if that's your game (which for me it is), especially with the outside view generated by P3Dv2.3 (or FSX or XP10). The existing PMDG 744, while dated compared to the new PMDG 777, is still for me a great planned flight experience without VAS problems even with PSX installed. The promised PMDG 744 v.2 will no doubt do PMDG proud and will arrive to great fanfare and acclaim. Will one be better than the other; is an apple better than an orange?

For some yes and for some no but I suspect for most, they'll both make their respective owners very happy indeed, especially if the underlying framework on which v2 will run can match the potential of the plane. I'll almost certainly get v.2 for P3D or X-Plane but not if it's to be run on FSX. On FSX, v1 is just fine. Oh to have so much choice!

Even as companies, Aerowinx and PMDG are very different but they have two things in common. They both make top class quality products and they both support the respective needs of their customers. Our hobby is better for them and for that a huge thank you to both.

Wherever PSX, FSX, P3D or XP10 go next, when my PSX finally does arrive (I'm now told it will be at 10:00am tomorrow, following 5 days baffling customs!), it's going from Boeing Field to Cardiff for a thorough check up before being released to the BA line to join that incredible morning view of 744 tails lined up at Heathrow ready to depart for every corner of the globe. Maybe in reality, the 744 tails aren't lined up anymore but the memory is!

Thanks again to Hardy and Robert and your respective supporters for making our hobby what it is today.