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ahammerman

777 autoland

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I have been flying my PMDG 777 lately and when I go to autoland the plane, the autolamd will work until I hit about 500-300 feet and the PFD will display "NO AUTOLAND" in yellow and then I have to take the plane and land it myself. The only time auto land has worked was when I flew KPAE to KSEA as a test flight in the 777-200F and I haven't achieved one any other time. Any suggestions/tips?

 

Thanks, Avery Hammerman

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Hi,

 

There are several factors that can lead to No autoland to be displayed, amongst them:

_ Multiple ILS receivers failed

_ Aircraft moved during automatic realignement of ADIRU on groud

_ Landing config not achieved

 

Before you get the No autoland message, do you have the land 2 or land 3 displayed?

When the message is displayed, have you check that the ILS frequency is displayed in both PFDs and NDs?

Have you checked that you have no failure active?

Do you have the correct landing config (flaps 20 min + Vref selected, spoilers armed, gear down...)?

Can you post a screenshot with the message displayed?

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I have no failures and yes the ILS is in both the PFD and ND's. The adiru should be fine after I've already done about 5 flights. Land 3 is definitely displayed. The only thing I can think of is the landing config because I remember this most recent landing in Melbourne from Auckland that the speed randomly dropped and then shot back up (kinda glitchyish) then it displayed the message. I'm doing another flight tonight and ill try an ILS landing once again. If it doesn't work ill screenshot it...

 

Thanks, ill give you some more info about it tomorrow

 

Avery Hammerman

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ILS Approach to an Autoland.  Two separate topics.  I know that's being very pedantic, but there's enough of a simism that they're one in the same that I feel like at least making an effort to push separating them.

 

My bet is that some sort of procedure isn't being followed, or something in the sim is causing it (weather, settings, something like that).  Not sure what role the CRS plays in the system checking, but you might want to ensure the setting "use FSX CRS" is set to yes to ensure 10+ year old scenery isn't causing issues.

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Hi Avery,

 

The following text from FCOM vol 1 may help you:

 

"The maximum allowable wind speeds when landing weather minima are predicated on autoland operations: headwind 25 kts, tailwind 10 kts, crosswind 25 kts, maximum glide slope angle is 3.25 degrees, minimum glide slope angle is 2.5 degrees. Automatic landings can be made using flaps 20 or 30, with both engines operative or one engine inoperative. The autopilot flight director system (AFDS) autoland status annunciation must display LAND 2 or LAND 3. Automatic landing cannot be made if the EICAS message SLATS DRIVE is displayed.

 

Automatic Approach with Flaps 25

 

Category III operations and autoland are not approved with flaps 25. Category II automatic approach with manual landing (both engines operative and single engine inoperative) has been approved for dual or triple channel (LAND 2 or LAND 3 annunciated) and for an autopilot minimum use height of 100 feet AGL."

 

I shall be interested in what you discover.

Cheers, Richard

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I'm sure that was the problem Richard, when landing in Melbourne yesterday I did have a very strong crosswind... Today I landed in KLAX and the autoland system seemed to work fine. We'll see if it continues on that trek

 

Thanks guys

 

Avery Hammerman

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I'm sure that was the problem Richard, when landing in Melbourne yesterday I did have a very strong crosswind... Today I landed in KLAX and the autoland system seemed to work fine. We'll see if it continues on that trek

 

Thanks guys

 

Avery Hammerman

I too had the same using the in-built Jeppesen weather engine, no Auto Land, and I kinda figured it may have had to do with the wind and took over to hand-land.

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I'm actually using Rex Essential Plus weather but I'm sure its a similar problem.

 

Avery Hammerman

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Alright so imagine this. I'm coming in for an ILS approach and an autoland at Toronto (CYYZ) I'm landing runway 24 and I have the ILS frequency correct. I am nearing the dotted line for the runway intercept course and I hit the LOC button on autopilot. It goes green and then the PFD say LOC in green with a box around it. So naturally I go to hit the approach hold button except it only clicks down and does not show a green light. The altitude does not begin to change and I have to disengage autopilot and do the landing by hand once again. This is the second time this has happened. The first time was on an approach into Dubai. What am I doing wrong?

(the wind was 21 kts at my 10 o'clock)

Avery Hammerman

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Avery

 

I more or less do the same as you except I refer to to my AivlaSoft EFB landing chart to see at what altitude the ILS intercepts and when I reach that altitude and marker, that's when I switch to APR after having long before LOC engaged set the course and ILS frequency for the Runway I'm planning to land on, and more often than not, it starts the glide-slope. There are others here including Kyle, who may be able to describe the ILS capture for auto-land procedure better than I've managed.

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Hi,

 

As per FCOM vol2:

 

"localizer captures when intercept track angle is within 120 degrees of localizer course"

"glideslope captures when intercept track angle is within 80 degrees of localizer course"

 

When you push the app button, are you within the 80 deg?

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Hi Avery

Your problem is of interest as it should clearly work if you are within the parameters of completing an autoland. As you approached the localiser and you pressed LOC and it went from white underneath and then green when captured, then the ILS frequency must have been correct or this would not have happened. So now need to concentrate on the glideslope part. From my experience I like to be about 3000 ft above the runway altitude above sea level and about 12 miles out when capturing the ILS. Then when the LOC is established, as I get closer to the runway I can see a red or is it orange diamond shape at the top right of the PFD to show that a glideslope exists. It is then that I press the APP button, and it has always locked on and started the descent when the red diamond goes below the centre of the PFD. (It is hollow when it is identified and goes solid colour when active). It must be at least hollow diamond before pressing APP or it will not be effective. This is my take on it, I am only an armchair pilot and this seems to work for me even if not technically following the proper rules. Also if you suspect weather etc. why not turn all that off and prove the planes systems are ok with no crosswinds etc to help nail down the issue. . Also if you are using third party airports, the ILS frequency may have been updated and this causes issues as FSX is expecting the ILS frequency of the default airport (I think) but would not cause an LOC ok but GS not working.

Hope some of this helps

Kind Regards

John Calleja

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I felt that I was well within the limits of catching the glidescope from former experience in the NGX and as I got closer and closer to the runway I continued to try the approach hold button... Are there any other procedures in the FCOM to look at because I'm pretty sure I'm doing it all correctly.

 

Avery Hammerman

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Hi,

 

You can have a look at the FCOM volume 1 > Normal Procedures from pages NP.21.42 (Approach Procedure -> Landing procedures - ILS) (PDF page 240)

 

And Also FCOM v2, chapters 4 (Automatic flights) from PDF p297  and chapter 11 (Flight Management, navigation) PDF p829.

 

You can skip to the particular points you are interested in in each chapter but if you decide to read through the wholes chapters, it's really worth it because there is a lot to learn in these pages.

And as a non real airliner pilot, I keep jumping into the two FCOM volumes each time I have a doubt, which is quite often!  :P

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That seems like a good idea. I'll take a look at those sections and hopefully get an answer.

 

Avery Hammerman

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Well once again same problem... flying American airlines EGLL-KJFK and I caught the localized, went to hit approach hold and the same thing happened. I figured maybe I was too far out so I waited until I got closer and continuously tried it. Still nothing. I disengaged autopilot and then landed the plane. Nothing special. After I began to taxi to the gate I realized that the landing checklist hadn't been filled out. Could that have been the issue? I had an 8 knot headwind almost directly on my nose. I read through much of the FCOM sections and the only thing I can think of us that I didn't fill in the checklist.

 

Please Help!

 

Avery Hammerman

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The checklist is merely of advisory nature and has no influence on the aircrafts systems.

 

Just to make sure: Have you engaged both autopilots? You need both of them coupled for the aircraft to make a full autoland by itself.

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For the checklist, I can tell 100% sure that the issue doesn't come from it. I complete the checklist at around 1500ft AGL when established at landing config well after having activated the approach mode. So it can block it.

 

Honestly, I can't see what's wrong with your sim, maybe a bug?

Procedure wise, the ILS approach is quite easy to perform:

_ Check that the correct ILS frequency and bearing are entered in the FMC

_ Check that you are on a correct intercept angle with autopilot ON

_ Check that the weather is within the operational limits

 

And if you have no failure, that's pretty much all you technically have to do.

 

Regarding the autopilots, you don't have to manage them like in the NG where you must push the second one for an  autoland, the T7 manage them for you (that's why both illuminates when you push on one).

 

So I'm unfortunately running out of idea here if you have no failure active... sorry!

 

Maybe someone with more knowledge than me?

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It starting to sound like some type of bug . Ill reinstall the plane and see if that works.

 

Avery Hammerman

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It usually occurs if you are not configured appropriately by a certain height. Havent checked the docs but make sure you are at Vapp, landing flaps, gear down, speed brake armed by 1500 feet.

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It usually occurs if you are not configured appropriately by a certain height. Havent checked the docs but make sure you are at Vapp, landing flaps, gear down, speed brake armed by 1500 feet.

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It usually occurs if you are not configured appropriately by a certain height. Havent checked the docs but make sure you are at Vapp, landing flaps, gear down, speed brake armed by 1500 feet. 

 

For an autoland, yes; but there, the problem is that he can't even arm the approach mode which doesn't need to be in landing config.

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I reinstalled the plane and am currently flying from TNCM-KATL so we'll see once I arrive. During the repair installation I did see some things like"ILS" and "approach" that took a while to reinstall but that might just be normal. Hopefully the approach hold will work this time around. I tested it in the default PMDG 777-300ER from KPAE-KSEA and it worked as it should have. I'll post some more info after land.

 

Thanks

 

Avery Hammerman

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So far it looks good. This landing went down without a problem. However that is just one just like the Cathay Pacific plane as stated earlier.I'll fly one more today and see I everyone checks out.

 

Avery Hammerman

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