Support or Piracy?

[mgh 89]

Unofficial forums are in invaluable because the official forums only tell us what the developer wants us to know - not what we want to know.

 

How can I assess the quality of an add-on if I have to buy it before I can read the official forum - and then find its flaws. It would never buy any add-on whose forums were closed to potetnial buyers.

 

 

 

official forums being rude, inactive or ultimately unhelpful.

 

That is very true and some forums also delete inconvenient posts. I seem remember at least an unofficial forum was created here because of the attititde in its the official forum.

 

 

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[pete_auau 1,159]

How many pirates might be around doesn't concern me in the slightest, it's simply not my problem.

 

It might not  be your problem but Iam sure is a worry for the devs  

[xplanery 250]

I'm sure piracy would exist like it does now even if all product support forums required registration and input of product license. Having to register in different site for every developer you purchase from would be too much of a hassle in my opinion, the current way of things works the best. 

[Wobbie 938]

I agree with mgh.

 

Obviously, I look at the official forums, BUT, I also value the input on unofficial forums as well.

If I am looking at a particular product/aircraft etc, the unofficial forums are a great place to get unbiased opinions/help & info in order for me to decide if I want the product.

 

Look at Peter Dawson's site, the MAAM site.

 

Guys, come on now. chill out there, most of us are responsible to ourselves & to our hobby.

To buy the product to get access to info about the product? No ways will I then support that product!

Paranoia has no place here.

[User72 28]

It might not  be your problem but Iam sure is a worry for the devs  

 

Indeed, that was my point. Registered users have absolutely nothing to worry about which is why I find it curious that registered users would worry about it at all. How devs make their money only concerns me when a product I've bought is poor, which is why open fora are so useful, to help one formulate an opinion on a product before purchase relying on the experience of others.

[HiFlyer 9,360]

Its not uncommon for many reports (and my personal experience) of official forums being rude, inactive or ultimately unhelpful.

 

I come here for help first and am very glad these unofficial forums exist.

 

That's very, very true! I haunted quite a few forums before "joining the scene" and my lasting impression is that I've never before seen a genre of forums where so many site owners feel quite so free to light into the customers, tell them off etc.

 

I was actually pretty shocked at first, but over time have pretty much gotten use to it. My working theory is that these vendors are not usually larger companies with formal standards of customer service, but are instead often individuals that feel they "don't have to take any crap"

 

And we can act a bit spoiled... but jeez.

 

It makes for an unusual customer experience at times, and I must admit I tend to shy away from vendor forums, not only because of that, but because of the fanboi mentality that such an atmosphere can create where, as has been said, other users comfortable in such an atmosphere are as likely to go on the attack against any inconvenient questions as the vendor themselves.

 

Yuck.

 

I only go to most vendor forums with the greatest reluctance now, and I can't even remember when I last asked a question on one. Except at Aerosoft! (and Outerra)  :smile:

 

These unofficial forums are invaluable!!

[mhlarsen 2]

Getting opinions on products can be obtained from many sources, not only the 'Unofficial' forums. Should not be a problem at all in the year 2014.

 

Usually a developer will have a general forum that will take care of such requests and does Avsim and other Flightsim forums.

 

If you buy a product the developer will demand that you register and identify your serial number, which is a natural request in many businesses.

 

In a niche community like ours we should worry about pirates. Just ask a company like CeraSim.

If I as a registered user can see the loophole for piracy that the 'Unofficial' forums are, then of course I should worry as I would like to enjoy and expand my hobby with new products.

 

I also assume that the Avsim editors have discussed this and obviously have come to a conclusion, but I am not sure its the right one.

 

There is really a significant contradiction between developers guarding their products with user registering and serial numbers, and then the 'free for all' support in the Avsim 'Unofficial' forums.

 

Of course it is more cumbersome to go through the hassle of registering and so on, but again this is a normal procedure for most products.

A procedure like that might be impossible to administrate for the 'Unofficial' forums, but maybe they need to have a different format.

 

This has nothing to do with paranoia, but it is really a question of ethics, which I think Avsim normally hold in high regard in other aspects.

[ubersu 78]

The biggest problem with the 'unofficial' support forums is that very few folks who post in them actually know what they are writing about...  I've done support for years and have seen more pure nonsense posted than any useful information.

 

DJ

[HiFlyer 9,360]

 

 

This has nothing to do with paranoia, but it is really a question of ethics

 

People will have to agree to disagree, as I really don't see the validity......  :unsure:

 

I suspect that put to a vote, your suggestion would sink without the slightest trace.

[188AHC 2,138]

MHLarsen - .

This has nothing to do with paranoia, but it is really a question of ethics, which I think Avsim normally hold in high regard in other aspects.

You are very close to crossing a line that you don't want to cross. I have a great deal of respect for all the members of Avsim, but as a member of this site , there are comments that I can't abide by.

 

You have your opinions, which it seems the majority of Avsim members disagree with, myself included, but to imply that Avsim is in even the most minute way guilty of unethical behavior is not acceptable.

 

You need to rethink your comments and choose your words more carefully.

 

As far as a manufacturer requiring registration of a product to access their forums, that's their business. As far as Avsim offering unofficial forums for discussion of a product, that's Avsim's business. I suggest that if they bother you enough to take the stand you have then don't visit them. It's simply not worth the aggravation you seem to experience. This is all supposed to be fun.

 

I'll admit this post is much stronger than any I normally post, but I will not stand by and have Avsim accused of something they don't do.

[CrownCityMisfits 58]

Despite the fact that I have spent thousands of hard-earned dollars on sim addons, I don't think anyone should have to prove ownership of a product to ask questions in an unofficial help section of a "public" forum. I see no reason to go out of our way to hide information from potential pirates at the inconvenience of those who choose to play nice.

 

But I'm a live-and-let-live kinda guy.  It's the developer's responsibility to protect their software from pirates, not mine. It is my responsibility to enjoy the products I buy, and not waste time worrying what Pirate McHackerson does on the daily. 

[HiFlyer 9,360]

The biggest problem with the 'unofficial' support forums is that very few folks who post in them actually know what they are writing about...  I've done support for years and have seen more pure nonsense posted than any useful information.

 

DJ

 

If that was the common experience, then sheer social Darwinism would have made these unofficial forums into rarely visited cul-de-sacs long ago. As many are in fact thriving and have done so for years, logic suggests that people are actually finding them useful.

[Kattz 132]

I have to say that I strongly agree with the mods here and strongly disagree with the OP in the firmest way possible without saying something rude or harsh.

 

You might as well say that watching a YouTube video of NGX procedures promotes piracy because someone could actually glean some information from it.

 

Ludicrous, bordering on paranoia.

[CrownCityMisfits 58]

You might as well say that watching a YouTube video of NGX procedures promotes piracy because someone could actually glean some information from it.

 

Ludicrous, bordering on paranoia.

 

 

 

+1 for a great analogy.

[mhlarsen 2]

MHLarsen - .

You are very close to crossing a line that you don't want to cross. I have a great deal of respect for all the members of Avsim, but as a member of this site , there are comments that I can't abide by.

 

You have your opinions, which it seems the majority of Avsim members disagree with, myself included, but to imply that Avsim is in even the most minute way guilty of unethical behavior is not acceptable.

 

You need to rethink your comments and choose your words more carefully.

 

As far as a manufacturer requiring registration of a product to access their forums, that's their business. As far as Avsim offering unofficial forums for discussion of a product, that's Avsim's business. I suggest that if they bother you enough to take the stand you have then don't visit them. It's simply not worth the aggravation you seem to experience. This is all supposed to be fun.

 

I'll admit this post is much stronger than any I normally post, but I will not stand by and have Avsim accused of something they don't do.

 

I actually have chosen my words carefully here and if you read my posts also stated that any consequences of these 'Unofficial' forums are not intentional in regard to Avsim.

 

It may be that i stand alone on this subject, but that does not mean that I am wrong, just alone.

 

Well, that was my 2 cents.