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STAR including a holding

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When flying a STAR you've been assigned by ATC that includes a holding at a specific waypoint are you always obligated to hold at that waypoint unless ATC instructs you otherwise?

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In the UK the hold at the end of a STAR is part of the STAR. for example Bovingdon (BNN) STAR ends at BNN VOR

 

BNN 1C Arrival via M605 (FL70) to DTY VOR continue on DTY VOR R166  to WCO NDB then turn left onto BNN VOR R298 to BNN VOR

 

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An instrument approach shall not be commenced without an explicit clearance from ATC.

If a clearance for an instrument approach has not been received, the aircraft shall enter the holding pattern at the STAR end point.

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When flying a STAR you've been assigned by ATC that includes a holding at a specific waypoint are you always obligated to hold at that waypoint unless ATC instructs you otherwise?

 

That's a good question, and I can only speak to the State-side here:

 

If you're looking at the STAR chart, you'll note that they often have holds depicted, but 99% of the time, they aren't implicit as part of the STAR. The caveat to this is if there is some specific instruction to hold.

 

The holds published on the charts are mainly there to cut down on frequency time so that the controller may state "hold as published" with any adjustments as necessary.

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Ok, so if ATC says "Callsign xxx, cleared inbound airport xxx via STAR xxx for runway xxx. When ready descend FL xxx" does that mean I don't have to enter the holding?

 

Or is the instrument approach clearance when ATC (usually after vectoring) says "Callsign xxx, turn right/left heading xxx. Cleared ILS runway xxx, report established"?

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So this means when flying a STAR including a holding I should always enter that holding unless ATC has instructed me otherwise?

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The chart for the Bovingdon (BNN) STAR has the note:

 

WARNING  Do not  proceed beyond BNN  without ATC clearance

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So this means when flying a STAR including a holding I should always enter that holding unless ATC has instructed me otherwise?

 

An instrument approach shall not be commenced without an explicit clearance from ATC.

If a clearance for an instrument approach has not been received, the aircraft shall enter the holding pattern at the STAR end point.

The chart for the Bovingdon (BNN) STAR has the note:

 

WARNING Do not proceed beyond BNN without ATC clearance

When an arriving aircraft on a STAR is cleared to descend, the aircraft shall follow the published vertical profile of the STAR. Published level restrictions (eg. CROSS (significant point) [AT OR] ABOVE/BELOW (level)) shall be adhered to, unless such restrictions are explicitly cancelled by ATC. Published minimum levels based on terrain clearance shall always be applied.

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OK, thanks for all input guys!

 

From now on I know I should always fly the STAR exactly as published including any holdings unless ATC has instructed me otherwise.

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When an arriving aircraft on a STAR is cleared to descend, the aircraft shall follow the published vertical profile of the STAR. Published level restrictions (eg. CROSS (significant point) [AT OR] ABOVE/BELOW (level)) shall be adhered to, unless such restrictions are explicitly cancelled by ATC. Published minimum levels based on terrain clearance shall always be applied.

 

 

That quote isn't part of the BNN STAR chart.

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Sorry it was mean't to be seperate.

 

I hope the OP has took something away from all this

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Ok, so if ATC says "Callsign xxx, cleared inbound airport xxx via STAR xxx for runway xxx. When ready descend FL xxx" does that mean I don't have to enter the holding?

 

That sounds a bit foreign to me, so I'm not sure my FAA-specific stuff will help, but I'll comment anyway:

 

In the States, you get the STAR assignment as part of your departure clearance (it may be changed by the controllers while en route, but that's the exception). So, the only STAR-specific instruction you might hear is "descend via the ABCDE." Unless the chart prescribes a hold (I can't think of one that does), or the controller instructs you to enter one of the published holds, no holds are to be flown. This is pretty much the exact opposite of some of the procedures over on the other side of the Atlantic, so just file that away for any time you're over here.

 

 

 


Or is the instrument approach clearance when ATC (usually after vectoring) says "Callsign xxx, turn right/left heading xxx. Cleared ILS runway xxx, report established"?

 

At this point, you'd already be at the end of your STAR already, so you'd be past all of the STAR holds.

 

Also, in the States, you normally don't hear "report established." There are some cases when radar is sketchy for that area, or if the minimum vectoring altitude (MVA) is above the altitudes published for the approach (the controller can vector the flight around at the MVA onto the LOC, and as soon as they're established on the LOC, the controller can issue the altitude published for that location).

 

This does bring up an alternate issue, though:

Any holds published on the chart (or the procedure turns) are to be flown unless it says NoPT (or the hold is a dashed line, which means that it's part of the missed - see the VOR approach into KFRR).You can see the LOC/DME approach to KBCB has examples of a published hold (for course reversal and the missed), and the NoPT on the one IAF leg.

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As you say what you describe is not the case in Europe. Here we never receive a STAR as part of the departure clearance (at least that never happened to me).

 

Unfortunately I don't recall what STAR it was yesterday when I flew into EGLL that included this hold, it might have been LAM3A.

 

Next time I think I'm gonna ask ATC about this to make sure I follow the procedure the way they expect.

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As you say what you describe is not the case in Europe. Here we never receive a STAR as part of the departure clearance (at least that never happened to me).

 

Correct - it's assigned to you as you get closer to the destination field. We might start doing that here because of OPDs (my own conjecture - I don't think the FAA is looking at this yet), but so far, we've avoided it.

 

 

 


Unfortunately I don't recall what STAR it was yesterday when I flew into EGLL that included this hold, it might have been LAM3A.

 

For EGLL, expect the STAR hold unless they specifically state otherwise. Except for once, I've always gotten at least one lap (and the only exception was when I was flying on VATSIM - RW, as a passenger, the hold at OCK was a conversation point many times between me and the person next to me).

 

The controller might be able to give you more specific phraseology, but what everyone else has been saying is how it goes.

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In Europe if you are cleared to a star with an HOLD , you have to respect also the last assigned flight level even if differently published.

Normally an HOLD, start after you correctly enter in DIRECT/PARALLEL/TEARDROP.

Then when you are inbound of the holding pattern after the fix, you start to count 1 minute every segment.

Don't trust the NGX or any of those FMC to fly a PARALLEL or TEARDROP do it manually.

Normally the Holding pattern is set in a way that you are heading to enter the approach procedure.

Try to fly in Olbia (LIEO) and check the most crazy star procedure with DME ARC and Hold.

Here you will find an interesting free tool to now if you enter in DIRECT/PARALLEL/TEARDROP.

http://www.flightutilities.com/download_prg.aspx

Holding pattern computer

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From memory, most of the time I come into EGLL on Vatsim, the controller will usually give me a direction like "Depart (place the hold is depicted) heading *Heading*"

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Thanks again guys for all input, I now feel much better prepared for next flight into London or any other airport with these kind of arrivals.

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Thanks again guys for all input, I now feel much better prepared for next flight into London or any other airport with these kind of arrivals.

 

Try EGLC with a GP of 5.5 ;)

 

Make sure you're flaps 30 before glideslope intercept !!!!

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Try EGLC with a GP of 5.5 ;)

 

Make sure you're flaps 30 before glideslope intercept !!!!

Yeah, I know about that...buckle up and prepare to dive :lol:

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Ok cool. Pretty exciting isn't it :) been looking up techniques on PPRUNE for the flare! I wouldn't like to mess that up in the RW lol

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Prescious Landing distance!

 

But the 737-800 ain't approved to land there in the RW!

 

Good job we fly simulators :)

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