Sign in to follow this  
z06z33

I have to ask what is Microsoft idea behind not allowing users to control updates in Windows 10?

Recommended Posts

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Get Windows 10 Pro.

I know but what exactly is the reason for cutting this feature in any version?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, part of using a Windows PC is using Windows.

 

I still remember the deafening roar when DOS was being removed as the backbone of the OS... how were we going to use all of our old games and software that required DOS?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have those 'forced updates' on my Surface Pro running Windows 8, and it's the most annoying thing imaginable. Sometimes, when I'm in the middle of something, I don't feel like saving my work and restarting the computer, I just want to get it done then install the update in my own time. What's the downside of giving some control over this to the user? And watching DVDs will require "separate playback software"?? Why can't they just wait until DVDs/CDs are considered ancient relics and THEN remove the ability to use them by default (like they did with floppy discs)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I don't mind having to download VLC player for my media needs, or itunes- they're way superior to microsoft's offerings. And I'm sure we'll be able to hack windows so that the update's aren't forced anymore, just like when we go through NickN's bible and make changes to the basic way windows operates. Less user friendly to be sure, but, hackable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you run that is so mission critical that any update they could release would cripple anything your run that would result in A) Loss of critical intellectual property or sensitive information. B. jeopardize your business. Nothing? Thought so. Working in IT, I can't even tell you how many people fail to install updates. Like months and months worth. By forcing home users to update without their say so, they in turn reduce their workload from issues that arise as a result of not updating their OS.  


No DVD software? Who has a DVD player anymore?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When home users continued to run Windows from their admin account, Microsoft finally introduced User Account Control.

 

If a large no. of users don't install critical and/or security updates, Microsoft finally ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe they are still making a 32bit version of Windows 10 ... heck, my phone is 64bit.

 

Home, Pro, Ultimate ... I guess they didn't learn the important lesson from Apple's OSX ... one OS version it has everything.

 

DX12 ... that's what I'll get out of Windows 10 ... would have been nice in they included Intel's 3D tracking API/SDK built into the OS so we could use it out of the box ... and they keep on with touch screens for desktop ... ugh.

 

As far as I can tell this is Windows 8.2 ... 10 would indicate some significant change, so where is it?

 

Cheers, Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you run that is so mission critical that any update they could release would cripple anything your run that would result in A) Loss of critical intellectual property or sensitive information. B. jeopardize your business. Nothing? Thought so. 

Wow, so I only have a basis to complain about losing my work if it's of huge importance to a business or something? In that case, if I unplug your computer while you're on the ILS after a 13 hour flight or just about finished with a massive video editing project, you have no right to be mad at me!

 

I never said that forced updates would be detrimental to my business or whatever. I stated that they were annoying, and I hate having to plan what I'm doing around the update schedule instead of the other way around. Perhaps MS could give us the option to turn off forced updates, but place the setting in a place where only people who know what they're doing would find it (similar to the 'show hidden folders' option); people who are more likely to update their computer in due time. 

 

And I have a bunch of DVDs, as well as games and such on CDs, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Downloading a separate software to play them isn't a huge deal, but it's still nice to pop in a DVD and have autoplay open up without having to think about it before hand. 

 

Again, my complaints are that these new 'features' are annoying, not of grave importance to world economies or national security....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows 10 Home is the consumer-focused desktop edition. I suggest the majorty of such users aren't interested in having to up date themselves. They prefer for Windows to do it for them. I do and I've never had any problems.

 

If you must do that then buy Windows 10 Pro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

W7 Professional (SP1) and W7 Ultimate (SP1), as well as W8.1 Pro, can be updated to W10 Pro for free (time-limited offer, and pls. do read all the fine print, incl. the W10 EULA).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect it's down to users not installing Windows Updates. I'm sure lots of people round here have been asked to look at someone's computer at some point, and very very often have seen patches and updates not installed, which is always a good place to start. I've never had a problem with a windows up, whether on home pc or using Windows Server, but some people have admittedly. What I think they are trying to do is stop non-power users from having their computer/device taken over and used in some sort of spam or DDOS botnet.

 

This may infuriate some users, but for them the fallout is probably worth it from a security stand-point and from having lower attack vectors. I install all updates, they are set to download but don't install, then I get a message and I reboot. Has anyone around here stopped an update before it installed? Or even stopped updates all together? I'm working of the presumption and evidence thus far that after an update has been installed, we will still be able to remove it afterwards. Unless anyone can tell me otherwise. In terms of drivers, especially graphics drivers, I've never had a graphic drive update from Windows Update, only from nVidia. Maybe it overrides, or just installs before Windows Update. I'm not 100% sure on that one. But I control it through the nVidia control panel.

 

I will be getting hold of Pro, if you have issues with Home I suggest you do to. This may help;

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-10-will-have-seven-editions-heres-how-to-tell-which-is-for-you/

 

I would say however that Enterprise, Mobile Enterprise and Education are probably more down to volume licenses cost then anything else so won't be touched by consumers. W10 IoT will be like an embedded version that's always existed, and again unless you are making shopping tills, cash machines or anything that requires an embedded system, then you won't touch it. And with W10 Mobile, you'd only really interact with from a purchasing perspective if you work for a phone company or a developer. So in reality there is Home and Pro and if you have a phone, then you will use Mobile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wondered if the no dvd software was because of the past legal problems Microsoft has had with including media players. I wonder if there was a licensing issue, or they just thought ###### it, less devices have CD/DVD drives in them. I built this computer a year ago and put a blue-ray player in. It was £20 so why not, but only used it for older games where I have the disc. But, getting hold of one of the hundreds of players is no issue. I do wonder though, they are not specifically speaking of a media player, it will come with a media player, but the ability for that media player to play DVD's. It does seam odd, there is a reason for it though, like everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has Blu-Ray taken over from DVD now? I assume that means that Blu-Ray players are cheap enough these days, and they can also play standard DVDs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I find it hard to believe they are still making a 32bit version of Windows 10 ... heck, my phone is 64bit.

 

That's easy - x64 mode means that the CPU can no longer switch into 16-bit virtual 86 mode. I'd imagine there's still a ton of legacy 16-bit Windows software kicking around in enterprises, and Microsoft wants those folks to update as well.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luke's right, MS has a big legacy use, and they want customers to still be able to use Windows if they can't use 64Bit. MS is far FAR better then Apple at supporting users for more then about 6 weeks past the new version, they actually support users who cannot upgrade.

 

And blue ray players are cheap Chris, I didn't know there was ever a point in which Blue-Ray players couldn't play DVD's. Infact I'm struggling to believe that ever was the case. But here's a link, maybe mine was a bit more then £20, but was cheap none the less

 

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BD will require licensing from Sony ... probably something Microsoft can't afford to put into a free OS.

 

 

 


MS is far FAR better then Apple at supporting users for more then about 6 weeks past the new version, they actually support users who cannot upgrade.

 

And this is also their ball and chain and it's a weakness holding them back from progression.  Agree that Apple will pretty much drop you (hardware wise) after 2-3 iterations and you'll be on your own or you'll have to upgrade your hardware ... but it terms of moving platforms along and not being handicapped by legacy it's a smart move financially for Apple as it ensures continued growth revenue.

 

MS legacy support is in part why so many held on to WinXP and probably why so many will hang on to Win7.  Microsoft have built their own legacy prison ... dangers of not having proprietary EFI and hardware agreements (Apple cover both sides software and hardware).  Being "open" comes at the cost of progression.  Two opposing philosophies but one company is clearly doing better than the other ... and that company is Apple.

 

I'm not saying right or wrong ... market decides, but Microsoft doesn't seem to believe the market can decide and I think that's the real problem with Microsoft ... they're trying to argue what a market wants and that's just a road to no where.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody describes MS as open...but I see what you're getting at. They are far more open then Apple. And lets be honest, Apple are TERRIBLE when it comes to security. Awful awful awful.

 

That being said, and a summery of what you wrote; MS makes a tonne of money from enterprises, Apple not so much. In fact a lot of enterprises groan with Apple devices. So of courses Microsoft wants to support them,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get Windows 10 Pro.

Windows 10 Pro will only be able to DEFER updates, but not stop them completely. Eventually, they will install automatically.

 

Wow, so I only have a basis to complain about losing my work if it's of huge importance to a business or something? In that case, if I unplug your computer while you're on the ILS after a 13 hour flight or just about finished with a massive video editing project, you have no right to be mad at me!

 

 

Keep in mind that W10 will FORCE everything that used to be "Optional Updates" in W7/8.1/Vista. That means that your drivers for your graphics card, laptop touchpad, and even MOUSE are going to be updated automatically, with NO option to choose otherwise.

 

This may infuriate some users, but for them the fallout is probably worth it from a security stand-point and from having lower attack vectors. I install all updates, they are set to download but don't install, then I get a message and I reboot. Has anyone around here stopped an update before it installed? Or even stopped updates all together? I'm working of the presumption and evidence thus far that after an update has been installed, we will still be able to remove it afterwards. Unless anyone can tell me otherwise. In terms of drivers, especially graphics drivers, I've never had a graphic drive update from Windows Update, only from nVidia. Maybe it overrides, or just installs before Windows Update. I'm not 100% sure on that one. But I control it through the nVidia control panel.

That's the problem, though. W10's updates will also include what used to be "Optional Updates" in previous Windows. That means your drivers will be updated automatically.

 

 

I installed W10 preview on my laptop on a separate partition. As I was working on it, I noticed my laptop's trackpad suddenly stopped working. It continued to be non-responsive for at least a minute. After that, I went to Windows Updates and guess what? It was downloading and installing and update for my laptop's trackpad, without EVER asking me, and without an option to CANCEL.

 

 

Can you imagine what will happen when Windows Updates decides to install a graphics card update while you're about to land???  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe they are still making a 32bit version of Windows 10 ... heck, my phone is 64bit.

 

Home, Pro, Ultimate ... I guess they didn't learn the important lesson from Apple's OSX ... one OS version it has everything.

 

DX12 ... that's what I'll get out of Windows 10 ... would have been nice in they included Intel's 3D tracking API/SDK built into the OS so we could use it out of the box ... and they keep on with touch screens for desktop ... ugh.

 

As far as I can tell this is Windows 8.2 ... 10 would indicate some significant change, so where is it?

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

We still using windows NT. If you want to get reaaallly technical. Windows Vista was verison NT 6.0.6002 (SP2) WIndows 8.1 is NT 6.3.9600. Windows 10 will be another variation of NT 6.x

Wow, so I only have a basis to complain about losing my work if it's of huge importance to a business or something? In that case, if I unplug your computer while you're on the ILS after a 13 hour flight or just about finished with a massive video editing project, you have no right to be mad at me!

 

I never said that forced updates would be detrimental to my business or whatever. I stated that they were annoying, and I hate having to plan what I'm doing around the update schedule instead of the other way around. Perhaps MS could give us the option to turn off forced updates, but place the setting in a place where only people who know what they're doing would find it (similar to the 'show hidden folders' option); people who are more likely to update their computer in due time. 

 

And I have a bunch of DVDs, as well as games and such on CDs, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Downloading a separate software to play them isn't a huge deal, but it's still nice to pop in a DVD and have autoplay open up without having to think about it before hand. 

 

Again, my complaints are that these new 'features' are annoying, not of grave importance to world economies or national security....

 

"In that case, if I unplug your computer while you're on the ILS after a 13 hour flight or just about finished with a massive video editing project, you have no right to be mad at me!"

 

I am not sure what you are talking about, but I feel that I could confidently say the OS won't install updates without first notifying you and asking you to reboot. Not arbitrarily doing it on its own and rebooting in the middle of whatever you were doing. 

Er.....what? :huh:

 

DVD MOVIES. Not data!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am not sure what you are talking about, but I feel that I could confidently say the OS won't install updates without first notifying you and asking you to reboot. Not arbitrarily doing it on its own and rebooting in the middle of whatever you were doing. 

It does. Read my post above. It doesn't reboot automatically (this is the only setting you can change), but it DOES install updates automatically. 

 

Also, even if you "unplug" your computer, chances are, the updates were already downloaded and are just waiting to be installed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DVD MOVIES. Not data!

 


And I have a bunch of DVDs, as well as games and such on CDs, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Downloading a separate software to play them isn't a huge deal, but it's still nice to pop in a DVD and have autoplay open up without having to think about it before hand. 

It does. Read my post above. It doesn't reboot automatically (this is the only setting you can change), but it DOES install updates automatically. 

 

Also, even if you "unplug" your computer, chances are, the updates were already downloaded and are just waiting to be installed.

 

I did read it.

 

1. Don't get home edition. 2. The computer WILL NOT reboot itself after installing updates on it's own. 

 

Please look at my signature.  That's only a small fraction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this