This was posted and then locked

To be fair you could see signs of people whipping themselves into a frenzy already. Why some flightsimmers get so obsessed over trivial, and it is trivial, matters is beyond me. I mean, is it seriously that big of a deal if you end up having to shell out an extra $10 than *you* expected.PMDG staff have made it clear numerous times that they don't give release dates or pricing, until the product is released.

I'm with Neil. Threads tend to take on a life of their own and the vendor (PMDG in this case) will eventually end up having to defend a position that someone else assumed for them. :) I truly believe that whether it is $49.99 or $69.99 does not matter. Those who initially reject the cost will quickly tire of reading how great it is (if it is) and buy it. Bob... :)

with all the features and add-ons people expect this bird to have, and all the liveries, all the bugs people have pointed out demanding to be fixed, all the unnecessary additions such as a passenger deck, dots on the windscreen, etc. Don't be surprised when the price might be a little higher than you expected. People demand perfection yet fail to realize the more trivial work that needs to be done, the longer it is going to take to finish it up.

I might be a little bit confused because it's not that I don't see the point of this thread, I just don't understand the point of this thread. I don't see any point in locking it either. Basically, I just want to know; what is the point of this thread? I know PMDG hasn't said anything about price other than that it would be fair. And what that means is nothing outrageous, but the same price as other companies who develop hi-fidelity aircraft would charge. I'd say $39.95-$49.99 would be a good guess. No idea about the expansion aircraft though.Jeff

Darryl:The pricing is fair because you think its fair? Hmmm, interesting, well I think that $275.50 for a Aston Martin Vanquish is fair, but that don't make it so!Let's put things into perspective. YOU are the consumer and your job is to look in the store window, drool over the merchandise, whip out your credit card, decide whether you want to pay what the merchant is asking and either purchase or not purchase. End of story.PMDG's job is to run their business as they see fit. Their job is to decide what price is fair to them and your agreement or lack there of is, quite frankly, irrelevant. The last time I checked, PMDG does not sell their wares on eBay.So at the end of the day, if PMDG charges $50 or $500 that is up to them, and meeting that price or not is up to you. Since you are not privy to their financial needs, obligations, business goals or corporte vision, they are quite right to slam the door to the discussion.But, you know, to be fair, PMDG DID foster this type of attitude from their customers. The customers thought that they should have semi-weekly updates, they got it. The customers thought they should have regular screen shots, they got it. The customers thought that they should be kept in the loop as to what's going on, and they got it. PMDG should NOT be surprised now that the customer thinks that they should assist in setting the price! You plant banana seeds, you get banana plants, one should not expect rose bushes!My 2 cents.Mike T.

Mike,Lets be more philosophical about it. Locking threads is daily occurrance here no matter what forum. Locking thread by itself doesn't make moderators "bad" or doesn't make customers "bad" either. No one is bad here. In this case it is a simple reminder that pricing policy is not be discussed. If I recall this is part of PMDG's stated forum policy - if you don't like it you can discuss this with RR in private since he runs the show there. So ultimately folks may push the envelope of what is allowed but don't be surprise if someone will push back. It's not a big deal.I don't see any "fostering" of attitude here. If folks don't know (or forgot) where the boundary of discussion is - they should be reminded.Michael J.

>You plant banana seeds, you get banana plants, one should not>expect rose bushes!True, but i do believe it is possible to feed a rose with bananasCheersDan

I have to say you guys discussing pricing in the 60 buck range are CRAZY.There is virtually no addon that I will pay more than the sim itself for.The amount of inflation in price on addons is simply rediculous. Even Alphasim is charging 30 bucks for product now. I guess its "rage against the machine" on my part, but I have a fundamental problem with pricing on addons lately especially the stuff that prices above the cost of MSFS itself.This is JUST MY OPINION...and no need to make this a 100 message thread. I just want to put a stake in the ground on behalf of simmers, that pricing has gotten to stupid levels on some products. Is there no ceiling at which this crack addicted group will not pay?EricQuixote mode now turned OFF.

>Is there no ceiling at which this crack addicted group will>not pay?Hmmm.. I usually have no artificial ceilings regardless if this is an FS add-on, bicycle or a bottle of wine. I go by "value" which is roughly how much I am getting for every $1 spent. If I perceive a better value in a more expensive product - I will try to get it even if it means I may not buy something else. Michael J.

Eric:*ooooh I feel a rant coming on!*I TOTALLY agree here. The fact of the matter is that if you take a complex 1st person shooter like Doom 3 for instance, it costs around $45.00 retail. And let's look at what you get:- custom developed Doom 3 graphics engine built from the ground up- Decades of man hours of development- The coding and rendering of an ENTIRE virtual worldThen take an addon based on the Doom 3 engine - $25.00 max Now, translate that to MSFS 2004, the rendering of the entire globe, every navaid, every airport, weather systems - servers to support them, license fees to Cessna, Bell, Boeing, etc to use their aircraft, fees for photoreal scenery areas, many high detailed airports, and decades of man years of development. -$50.00Then take an add-on based on FS, the highest priced add-on aircraft is almost $100.00 and it is not unusual to pay almost $40 for one airport. AND, there are a GREAT many instances of garbage being sold (cough, perfect flight)for $30.00!!! And with far less development time (it doesn't take a team of 10+ developers 3 years per product!), free tools (GMAX), very little advertising and packaging costs, etc. It simply don't add up NO MATTER HOW you try to justify it.That said, you can buy a used Honda Civic for $4000 and pump $25,000 in aftermarket equipment into it to trick it out! How many idiots do you see driving a modest car but with TVs, spinning rims and sound systems that cost more than quadruple the price of the orignial car?At the end of the day, the pricing for FS add-ons IS outrageous, however, it is the price that we are willing to pay and the developers are willing to charge it to us. We can pay it, or we can refuse. The fact is, if we as consumers want to drive down the price of ANYTHING simply stop buying it. That works for everything from clothes, to cars, to the stock market. No demand, no justification for a high price. If thousands of simmers are willing to pay $40 for an airport, who in their right mind would lower the price???The difference between the real world consumption and buying sim products is that we as simmers are not allowed to be angry with a product. If we are frustrated, if we feel cheated, if we demand that a product be fixed, if we criticize, if we want to speak to a manager because the person we are speaking to is not up to our satisfaction, we are chastised, we are banned, we are locked out, we are flamed by the product developer for not saying it nicely!!!! Now THAT is insanity!!! Every thread now seems to start out something like: Hi, I love your product so much and I appreciate your hard work, and I love your company so much, but...Imagine in the real world: "Hi Nissan I love your car, it is just great and I appreciate that you took the time to make it, but, it doesn't actually drive. Can you help? :-lolAnd NOW, many developers are being total smartalecks with their snyde remarks, lack of patience and total ignorance that someone may just be disatisfied that they paid $50 for a product and it did not meet their expectations and they are HUMAN and they are simply angry! Its almost as they are doing us a favor...however, favors are free therefore EVERY PAYING CUSTOMER has the right to vent their spleen, if they so wish, they paid for the right!To me, this whole payware thing is cockeyed (ergo the merchant is always right) but the FS community tolerates it so who am I to "rage against the machine" when it seems so many LOVE the "machine" just the way it is!My opinion, your mileage may vary, all rights reserved, stay off the grass.Mike T.

Mike,You have to remember that its economics that comes into play here.The FS market is a lot smaller than the market for games like Doom and the FS market is a lot more fussy about tiny tiny details than the Doom market it.Take for instance PS1. Highly complex and highly realistic. Its also fairly expensive. And a lot of people wouldn't buy it because its just the 744. No other aircraft at all. A small market, so the price is high.Its the same with FS add-ons, you have a small market to begin with, then matched up with competition from other companies. How often do we see two companies going head-to-head on the same aircraft type? Not very often, because the slice of pie is simply too small.If you look at the economics of it, the makers of Doom have a higher level of profit than the FS developer. Therefore while it may seem to you, as the consumer, you are getting ripped off by the FS developer. Really, its the makers of Doom that are gouging you.I do agree with you however, that certain FS developers are ripping people off, especially with poor support and hugely broken promises of features. Luckily, we are in a position where word-of-mouth is a huge marketing tool. Do you think anyone reading these forums would order the Wilco A380? :)So for a company like PMDG I have no problem shelling out a high amount of money for one of their products. I know they keep a high level of respect in their products, and the support is good.

Flight Sim addons are really just governed by 2 factors.1. Small market. - Sales of the best products probably top out at 10,000 units. This number has been thrown around by a few people such as Andrew Herd and if you take a look at the registered users of the LDS forums you get around that number.2. Inelastic Demand - The amount sold (again of high quality addons) really does not change that much based on price. They probably sell the same number if the price is $25 or $50, i.e. 5000 to 10,000 units (now I realize there is a wide range here but compared to sales of Doom or GTA some some other game its a drop in the bucket). I would agree that if the price got too high that the demand would drop off quickly...how many would buy the 747-400 at $100US ???? Given this scenario, I would expect to see prices continuing to rise to $50 and up. The 747 will probably be close to $50.Mark.

Pricing doesn't really matter except when your FPS are terrible. Which brings me to my next question. How are the framerates with this bird? Which means I don'nt want to build a computer to run this aircraft.

Comparing doom to flightsim products is like comparing apples to wallnuts. The only thing the two products have in common is that they run on a computer.Now, how many Doom, Quake or (insert your favorite shooter game ) users are going to argue about realistic ballistics, explosions, and the durability or weakness in the terrain to be blown up. If it looks pretty and the gameplay is balanced that is about all that matters. Flightsimmers that use the complex payware aircraft are very very finicky about their planes. Look at the PMDG forum for the criticism of the BETA shots! If you just read the posts, people want more, more, more and much more, but at a price of $19.95. Oh boy does the flamethrowers get hauled out if something as minor as the color of the winshield wipers is off. I can remember the nasty posts to the Dreamfleet forum concerning the color of the displays at night. Someone viewed a picture that had not been color corrected on airliners.net and was totally sure that the Dreamfleet guys didn't have any clue what they were doing.Another example is the new SkylaneRG release. Look at the screams of BUG!!!! Turned out the problem was another product that generated thermals. For what the beta testers and the developers have had to put up with the people who posted on the PMDG forum, I don't thing $100 bucks would be too much...perhaps too little.