I removed the unrealistic "approved for overwater operations" ETOPS sticker from the panel, but at night, it shows as a dark square above the PFD see screenshot below. How can this be removed? Thank you - David Lee

 

Select a livery that is not an ETOPS airplane. 

Select a livery that is not an ETOPS airplane. 

But I'd like etops and not to have that sticker, no airline has that on their panels. Not sure why it was included as required in the first place. - David Lee

 

 

Not sure why it was included as required in the first place.

 

You must have information not available to PMDG when they visited Boeing and collected their engineering data.  Pretty sure that the placard is required by the certification process, if for no other reason than to let maintenance know that they must follow ETOPS procedures.  Note that an ETOPS marking is on the nose gear door as well.

 

However, if you have better information please share that with us.

But I'd like etops and not to have that sticker, no airline has that on their panels. Not sure why it was included as required in the first place. - David Lee

 

Can you cite where and why you think this is the case?

 

Granted, in your defense, it does have a lot to do with the company OpSpec, but since most operators do not operate a full fleet of ETOPS-capable 737s, you'd be hard pressed to find a FSDO that would let an operator have a mixed fleet without a placard to notify the crew that the aircraft is, or is not capable of that operation. The ETOPS being on gear doors, too, isn't there to advertise the capability to the passengers, by the way. It's to identify the aircraft for ground personnel, as servicing the aircraft is different from their perspective, as well.

Can you find a single cockpit picture of this sticker on any airline? I have never seen it, going through all the major airline pictures. They all have their own unique stickers but none say something like the etops sticker that comes with the pmdg airplane. - David Lee

Can you find a single cockpit picture of this sticker on any airline? I have never seen it, going through all the major airline pictures. They all have their own unique stickers but none say something like the etops sticker that comes with the pmdg airplane. - David Lee

That's your proof. You can't find a picture of it on the internet..... ok.

That's your proof. You can't find a picture of it on the internet..... ok.

 

And? If you cannot see that sticker on any panel pictures of airline cockpits on the internet, how is it a normal standard feature that airlines use? How else am I supposed to find out what different airlines use for panel configurations besides looking through pictures online? I can try calling up every airline flight ops I guess. - David Lee

And? If you cannot see that sticker on any panel pictures of airline cockpits on the internet, how is it a normal standard feature that airlines use? How else am I supposed to find out what different airlines use for panel configurations besides looking through pictures online? I can try calling up every airline flight ops I guess. - David Lee

 

David,

 

Based on the limited set of 737s that are actually certified and maintained for ETOPS, it's statistically less likely you're going to see a picture of one with such a placard. There really aren't that many 737s certified for ETOPS. Such placards may also look very different. It's the text that matters, and the approved text will vary based on the FSDO the operator worked with.

 

I know that many simmers only have the internet to turn to in order to answer questions, but the internet wasn't what we based our decisions off of. We worked with Boeing and the airlines to determine what all should go into this aircraft. While I appreciate your eye for detail, please understand that we're armed with a lot more information than you are.

ETOPS certified

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/United-Airlines/Boeing-737-824/2471593/L/

 

I can't read what the yellow sticker says, but what I mean is there are no panel pictures I have found of etops certified aircraft having the sticker that the PMDG aircrafts all have when you select etops in the panel config. It is possible the yellow sticker says etops certified but that must be company specific and a different style than the option we are given.

ETOPS certified

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/United-Airlines/Boeing-737-824/2471593/L/

 

I can't read what the yellow sticker says, but what I mean is there are no panel pictures I have found of etops certified aircraft having the sticker that the PMDG aircrafts all have when you select etops in the panel config. It is possible the yellow sticker says etops certified but that must be company specific and a different style than the option we are given.

Out of all the complexities involved in ETOPS requirements you are devoting so much attention to a stupid placard which has all the looks of a specific operator practice ?

 

You should not care much about this. Instead, why don't you focus on more important things ?

 

Do you know how much fuel you should carry when flying a 737-8 from Seattle to Honolulu ?

 

I really appreciate all the ETOPS goodies that PMDG has incorporated as per regulations on the ETOPS version.

Out of all the complexities involved in ETOPS requirements you are devoting so much attention to a stupid placard which has all the looks of a specific operator practice ?

 

You should not care much about this. Instead, why don't you focus on more important things ?

 

Do you know how much fuel you should carry when flying a 737-8 from Seattle to Honolulu ?

 

I really appreciate all the ETOPS goodies that PMDG has incorporated as per regulations on the ETOPS version.

 

Why are you telling me what I should care about?

 

David Lee

Because, I just find it unbelievable how you nitpick on those relatively unimportant details when compared to what they represent. Equally unfounded is your assumption that it is unrealistic. It is enough that any one operator put that alert for its crew and or maintenance personel to make it valid and realistic. It is a common practice too when an item is inop.

 

There are special preflight checks that have to be conducted by maintenance or flight crew on these airplanes before an etops flight.

 

I guess I just find your complaint unjustified and irrelevant.

Just browsed across this thread. To be fair to David, I'm not sure many airlines use a placard to denote ETOPS status. I know my company doesn't, and we operate a mixed fleet of -400s, -700s, -800s, -900s, and -900ERs. None of the 400s, 700s or 900s are ETOPS, most of the 800s and I think all the 900ERs are.

 

So that surely doesn't mean no other airline uses placards, but the thing is, it doesn't seem like the best way to track ETOPS status. It's not like the SFP equipped placard, which is a status that can't really change. ETOPS can refer to both the amount and type of overwater emergency equipment on board, and the maintenance status of the aircraft for a particular flight. The only places to find this information, up to date for your flight, are the release and the mx logbook. For instance, let's say someone discovers one of the rafts has expired, but the plane is only going SEA-ORD. Don't need extended overwater equipment for that so no problem... but the plane is not ETOPS equipped. It's easy to denote that on the release and in the mx logbook... but if a placard were used to track that they'd be removing and re-affixing it all the time. So I'm guessing this is why most airlines don't do it that way.

 

All THAT being said, I can't imagine why anyone would sweat that placard being there in the sim. I mean... these cockpits have placards all over them, and they can be in various spots from plane to plane... they're stickers. Some are required and some are advisory and really... who cares? ;-)

I removed the unrealistic "approved for overwater operations" ETOPS sticker from the panel, but at night, it shows as a dark square above the PFD see screenshot below. How can this be removed? Thank you - David Lee

 

 

 

David  all you got  to do is  to  remove it  from the fmc  options   as  this  is what I get  when I did it,  so I cant  see  whys  yours is  different  to mine